Court Rules That File-Sharing Service Infringed Copyrights

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

Actually I don't believe modern publishing will survive the next ten years, ad-supported or not (weird de ja vu over all this). I think all these forms of entertainment will collapse in on themselves and leave us building something new and fresh out of the ashes.

That is quite possible, stupid ideas like the "agency model" and the current DRM mess tend to support this hypothesis. However, if the publishers disappear, they will replaced by the likes mentioned -- Google, Apple, Amazon, etc. Who may well distribute the books for "free" using an ad-supported model and hopefully, still offer ad free versions for a charge.

[Dusty Bottoms]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

That is quite possible, stupid ideas like the "agency model" and the current DRM mess tend to support this hypothesis. However, if the publishers disappear, they will replaced by the likes mentioned -- Google, Apple, Amazon, etc. Who may well distribute the books for "free" using an ad-supported model and hopefully, still offer ad free versions for a charge.

I think you're onto a nugget of truth and that is the value-added proposition when it comes to digital. If we take the base level of digital as everything being free, no arguing about IP or piracy or any of that, then what gives the digital a monetary or value in this state? It's when we add value that the monetary system might still have a chance. I'm talking here about free versions that you can then buy with extended extras, or you may buy ancillary products to support the artist. But I just don't see the object=set monetary value or even intellectual value as being workable in the digital age, let alone practical. And practically speaking it's a move toward this kind of system, paired with honor buying, donations, copyright abolishment and crowd patronage that might have a chance in the future.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

I'm talking here about free versions that you can then buy with extended extras, or you may buy ancillary products to support the artist.

I don't want T-shirts and fridge magnets with the author's name on it. I want to read a book. You might as well charge me for the book, because if you depend on my buying a lot of kitschy c**p instead of paying for the book, you won't get a dime.

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

They won't because money isn't everything...

There really isn't much else to say, is there? You don't believe the world operates on capital.

Many of us say you're wrong. Even those who say you are right mostly work for a living and pay for their food and rent, thereby proving you wrong.

Until you create a world where everyone gets everything for free, your idea of giving away creative works for free is simply unworkable.

Face it. Or die.

[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

And practically speaking it's a move toward this kind of system, paired with honor buying, donations, copyright abolishment and crowd patronage that might have a chance in the future.

It is my understanding that the majority of "honour buying, donations and crowd patronage" systems that have been tried thus far have shown only that those systems do not work. At least not for any but the already established and popular acts. In the face of the "it's digital therefore it should be free" culture, the "honour" system shows there isn't much honour to be had.

I could be wrong though as I've not really kept up to date on all such experiments.

Cheers,
PKFFW.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by PKFFW

It is my understanding that the majority of "honour buying, donations and crowd patronage" systems that have been tried thus far have shown only that those systems do not work. At least not for any but the already established and popular acts. In the face of the "it's digital therefore it should be free" culture, the "honour" system shows there isn't much honour to be had.

I could be wrong though as I've not really kept up to date on all such experiments.

Cheers,
PKFFW.

Such a system works for music, people download the music for free and pay 100's of dollars to see the musician(s) in concert. They buy lots of t-shirts and other stuff. But will people pay $100 to go to a book signing? With ad support, of course, rights holders still get paid according to sales/popularity. But for me, that price may well be higher than paying directly.

Anyway, I still think that we have plenty of time to educate people that a writer's work is worth something. Societies that provide social welfare for their poor citizens don't want to spend a dime for those that contribute so much just because their work can be easily reproduced in digital form?

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I don't want T-shirts and fridge magnets with the author's name on it. I want to read a book. You might as well charge me for the book, because if you depend on my buying a lot of kitschy c**p instead of paying for the book, you won't get a dime.



There really isn't much else to say, is there? You don't believe the world operates on capital.

Many of us say you're wrong. Even those who say you are right mostly work for a living and pay for their food and rent, thereby proving you wrong.

Until you create a world where everyone gets everything for free, your idea of giving away creative works for free is simply unworkable.

Face it. Or die.

Exactly, writers deserve some dignity, too. You pay for a book, it means something. Not some government assigned handout.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I don't want T-shirts and fridge magnets with the author's name on it. I want to read a book. You might as well charge me for the book, because if you depend on my buying a lot of kitschy c**p instead of paying for the book, you won't get a dime.



There really isn't much else to say, is there? You don't believe the world operates on capital.

Many of us say you're wrong. Even those who say you are right mostly work for a living and pay for their food and rent, thereby proving you wrong.

Until you create a world where everyone gets everything for free, your idea of giving away creative works for free is simply unworkable.

Face it. Or die.

No, I and I assume the others arguing the same side do not accept your repeated attempts to frame the argument as if people are trying to take something from you without paying. Copyright comes from us the people it is not natural and it is not for your benefit it is for ours. When you chose to publish you're signing a social contract and a legal one that says you let go after a limited time. You agree there is fair use for parody for backup for format shifting for educational use for archiving, the list goes on but basically you agree in advance your control cannot be total. When you and a whole industry decide to renege on the deal why do you anyone at all to keep to the other end of it?

You don't have any respect for copyright when you ignore the parts that don't put money in your pockets, suggesting that other people are the problem is hypocritical.

[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

No, I and I assume the others arguing the same side do not accept your repeated attempts to frame the argument as if people are trying to take something from you without paying. Copyright comes from us the people it is not natural and it is not for your benefit it is for ours. When you chose to publish you're signing a social contract and a legal one that says you let go after a limited time. You agree there is fair use for parody for backup for format shifting for educational use for archiving, the list goes on but basically you agree in advance your control cannot be total. When you and a whole industry decide to renege on the deal why do you anyone at all to keep to the other end of it?

You don't have any respect for copyright when you ignore the parts that don't put money in your pockets, suggesting that other people are the problem is hypocritical.

Did you not earlier in the thread admonish another poster for attacking you without knowing anything about you?

Having read many of Steve Jordan's posts I can assure you that in your last few posts directed towards him you are now doing the same to him. You obviously know little about him as you are attacking him on baseless grounds and making accusations that are obviously wildly inaccurate.

Cheers,
PKFFW

[Iphinome]

If I'm wrong I'll offer an apology but what I keep seeing form him is money money money when copyright that fails to expand the public domain defeats the purpose of offering protection.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Kajti

File-sharers buy more product? Maybe on average, but I'll freely admit that I buy nothing. Every ebook I read, every audiobook I listen to, and most every TV show or movie I view, I downloaded without paying for.

Were you downloading before it became a mainstream activity, or did you used to buy pirate content on CDR from other people? I believe that it is the people who used to buy pirate content that are now spending that money on legitimate content because they can download the pirate stuff for free instead of paying for it.

Those are the sort of people that it would be relatively easy to convert into paying customers. The ones who have always downloaded, you might as well just forget about them or work out another way to profit from them.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Well, all the players are here now.....let's rumble!

This is drifting way way off topic....

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

If you ever "win" then what will happen is that books will not really be free, but ad supported. That means Google, Apple, and Amazon will rule; not the current publishers.

Now you tell me if that is the brave new world you want. Ads on every second page, embedded videos that can't be stopped, your reading habits tracked, etc.

It would be a very silly advertiser that positioned their ads within a book rather than at the point where the book is downloaded. I would guess that less than 1% of the books that are downloaded ever get read.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

There really isn't much else to say, is there? You don't believe the world operates on capital.

Many of us say you're wrong. Even those who say you are right mostly work for a living and pay for their food and rent, thereby proving you wrong.

Until you create a world where everyone gets everything for free, your idea of giving away creative works for free is simply unworkable.

Face it. Or die.

Whether it is right or wrong isn't really an issue any more. By ignoring it for 10 to 15 years you have allowed a whole generation to grow up knowing they can have anything they want for free. No amount of foot stamping or wishing really hard is going to change that.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Whether it is right or wrong isn't really an issue any more. By ignoring it for 10 to 15 years you have allowed a whole generation to grow up knowing they can have anything they want for free. No amount of foot stamping or wishing really hard is going to change that.

No, but laws and enforcement will.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by kennyc

No, but laws and enforcement will.

Only in fantasyland. Anywhere else bringing lawsuits against your target audience, your customers and the people you hope to be your customers does nothing but generate bad will. Look at the backlash the RIAA got for their efforts. The demand of $150k per song didn't help them much either. All lawsuits mean is file sharers are playing the reverse lottery the media companies look like jerks and the only winners are lawyers.