Fight Flash Here!

[scottjl]

I'm still waiting for your definition of a "real" os.

looked at your resume, lots of web design, dos training classes, not one mention of OS design.

ps. your comments link 404s and your copyright marks are out of date (1998!). might want to look into those.

[Trubu]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Ummmm.... not really.....my point is that if Apple is serious about getting/staying in the web browsing device business then they need to go along with the official or defacto standards.

I think we've spiraled back around to the 9th circle of Flash Argument Hell. Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by Trubu

I think we've spiraled back around to the 9th circle of Flash Argument Hell. Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.

apple sucks!

[Maggie Leung]

Given iPad buyers' demographics and iPad sales numbers, I figure many Web sites (especially retailers and those that lean heavily on advertising) will want iPad owners' eyeballs. So it's in their interest to adjust, because it doesn't look like Apple is budging. As more tablets emerge, Apple might have to rethink.

Flash would be nice, but isn't a priority for me. I knew going in that iPad didn't support it.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Ummmm.... not really.....my point is that if Apple is serious about getting/staying in the web browsing device business then they need to go along with the official or defacto standards.

If you personally have issues with it then you should have the option of disabling it, not have that option unavailable due to CEO's with over-large egos and control issues.

Agree 100% with both, especially the latter. It should be up to the consumer what they want to run on their gadgets. I'll never support schemes were companies exert so much control over what a person can or can't do with their hardware. I own the hardware when I buy it, I should be able to do whatever I want with it from that point forward.

At least with things like Tablets, computers etc. that IMO should be open. Things like video game consoles, e-readers etc. the nature of the game is closed systems--though I'd prefer that to change as well.

But that's not Apple's MO, and unless Jobs dies and the new guy changes that MO, I"ll never buy another of their products. And Jobs will likely be around for a long time and appoint a lackey to take over for him, so I doubt it will ever change.

And hey, they make millions doing things there way so why not. Like I said earlier, I hope Google or someone gets their heads out of their ass and realizes there's a ton of money to be made by matching the form factor of the iPad, but with a bigger screen, open file system, and full suite of productivity software to make it a true tool for the business and academic crowd.

Probably a smaller niche than that for the iPad or other media tablets as most people prefer to spend money on play gadgets rather than work gadgets. But still a sizeable niche that's needed filled for YEARS.

[Maggie Leung]

Jobs' ego aside (I have little clue about him), if he really thinks flash is a technical problem, would you still insist he support it? He might be wrong about the technical problems, but sees himself doing right by his company and customers.

I ask out of curiousity. I don't have brand loyalty and don't have enough grasp of the technical stuff to judge.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

Jobs' ego aside (I have little clue about him), if he really thinks flash is a technical problem, would you still insist he support it? He might be wrong about the technical problems, but sees himself doing right by his company and customers.

I ask out of curiousity. I don't have brand loyalty and don't have enough grasp of the technical stuff to judge.

It should still be up to users IMO.

Don't include it on the iPad, but allow users do download and install it if they choose.

I like to have control over gadgets I buy, not be roped into to only using them how the person/company that made them thinks they should be used.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Trubu

I think we've spiraled back around to the 9th circle of Flash Argument Hell. Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.

It's the song that never ends, it goes on and on my friend....some people started singing it without realizing ....that....It's the song that never ends.


Btw I'm glad to take the brunt of the attack here if it helps others to see the light and allows people to post their comments. I have no issue with my ego or technical knowledge as I've been working in the computer hardware and software business most of my adult life some 30 years now.

A poem I just wrote:

I've seen 'em come and I've seen 'em go.
I've seen 'em fast I've seen 'em slow
I've seen 'em rise I've seen 'em fall
and those who think they know it all
are the biggest fools of all.

Kenny A. Chaffin 5-15-2010

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

Jobs' ego aside (I have little clue about him), if he really thinks flash is a technical problem, would you still insist he support it? He might be wrong about the technical problems, but sees himself doing right by his company and customers.
.....

I don't think that is it at all. It's just one more example of Apple (Jobs) trying to force its control issues down the throats of it's users. Jobs couldn't care less about his users, it's only the bottom line he cares about. (no different than most current CEOs).

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

It should still be up to users IMO.

Don't include it on the iPad, but allow users do download and install it if they choose.

I like to have control over gadgets I buy, not be roped into to only using them how the person/company that made them thinks they should be used.

I see your point of view. From my perspective, Apple provides products that are easy to use and I essentially paid them to make technical decisions for me, because I have little technical knowledge. If Apple lets me decide, then there's less incentive for me to buy their products, because the simplicity is diminished. If I bought an iPad and flash or whatever gummed up the works, I wouldn't know enough to blame flash (just an example). I'd probably just end up an unhappy Apple customer and switch brands.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

I see your point of view. From my perspective, Apple provides products that are easy to use and I essentially paid them to make technical decisions for me, because I have little technical knowledge. If Apple lets me decide, then there's less incentive for me to buy their products, because the simplicity is diminished. If I bought an iPad and flash or whatever gummed up the works, I wouldn't know enough to blame flash (just an example). I'd probably just end up an unhappy Apple customer and switch brands.

That's a fair point. Apple's products are more for people that aren't uber tech inclined. At least that's their target market--not that knowledgable tech people don't also love their products.

They will just never be for the power user. Hell even their PCs aren't with the stupid 1 button mouse etc.!

So for me it's just a matter of waiting for Google, HP or some company using Windows to make a tablet that fits my needs as more of a power user and a person wanting a productivity tool and not a media consumption tablet. Though I'll always be interested in keeping up with the iPad as my girlfriend has one and I do play around with it regularly.

But, getting back to your post, I will say, leaving the choice of Flash up to the consumer, and not including it on launch devices wouldn't cause you ANY problems. You'd have the exact same iPad you do now--nothing would be gummed up.

Those who want it would have the option of adding it. Those like you who aren't tech inclined would never know the difference.

Being more open doesn't have to mean being less user friendly as casual users can just ignore all that stuff and use it out of the box--rather than using it out of the box being the only option (aside from jailbreaking).

[Maggie Leung]

I can't speak for other non-technical users, but I might be curious enough about flash or other options to monkey around with 'em (if Apple offered), enough so that I'd get myself in a jam that I'd need help wriggling out of, lol. Then Apple would have to deal with my grumpy phone calls and e-mails, and I might end up switching brands. I'm just trying to imagine possible Apple motivations (other than ego).

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by scottjl

.... and your copyright marks are out of date (1998!). might want to look into those.

Well if you wanna get into the copyright and piracy discussion we an do that to.

I know a bit about that as well and it's not on my resume either.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Ummmm.... not really.....my point is that if Apple is serious about getting/staying in the web browsing device business then they need to go along with the official or defacto standards.

Flash is not a standard. It's just convenient because so many schools churned out Flash designers instead of web designers with some real skill.

Adobe also has not made a viable version of Flash for the Apple mobile platform and from the lackluster demos of Flash on Android, I'm not holding my breath that they'll ever manage to get decent performance on a mobile device.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Tamara

Flash is not a standard. It's just convenient because so many schools churned out Flash designers instead of web designers with some real skill.

Adobe also has not made a viable version of Flash for the Apple mobile platform and from the lackluster demos of Flash on Android, I'm not holding my breath that they'll ever manage to get decent performance on a mobile device.

DE-FACTO....get it?