iPad Things the iPad Does Not Do

[nikkie]

Originally Posted by Sonist

How about being the only mobile platform, where a developer has to gain approval from the OS provider AFTER an application has been completed, and has no concrete rules to go by in order to determine if their application will, or will not, be approved?

How about being the only mobile platform, where the OS provider vets every single application which the consumer has the right to install?

This is not particularly true.
Brew application on verizon phones all require Brew developer certs (which are far more expensive than an Apple developer membership) and admission to Verizon's (or the carrier's) app stores. That was one of the reasons why Verizon's phone OS stayed so similar for so long even though the devices were capable of radically improved functionality.

Until recently, a surprising number of phones were VERY locked down, such that one couldn't develop an application for them even if they wanted to. On certain platforms you could develop an app, but there was (1) no means for distribution or (2) the distribution network cost a fortune and required legitimate business backing, prohibiting exploration of the mobile space.

Android is the major competition for Apple right now in the app phone space, and it does a fantastic job of being open while providing a distribution mechanism.

Android is 3 years old. iPhone OS is a few months older, in the public eye.

I'm not arguing that it's great that you can't just install an app on your phone you downloaded off the internet. But I am saying that it is hardly unique to the platform, particularly in light of mobile OS history.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by Sonist

But more importantly to this discussion, it serves to explain many of the restrictions imposed on the iPad/iPhone ecosystem, including the lack of Flash and Java.

Sonist, I'm guessing you don't work with technology or you'd know that neither Flash nor a full JVM environment are well suited to run on mobile processors. Both are extreme resource hogs in terms of CPU time and memory used. I know you don't believe anything Job because you dislike the man, but there are technical merits behind his reasons for not implementing either on the iPlatform. Oh, and his wanting to diversify, well, what smart company wouldn't? There's a saying, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Apple almost went under a few years ago because of that (relying on Mac hardware and OS as their only means of income), as a stockholder in Apple, I'm sure glad they aren't making that mistake any longer.

@tamara and life, thanks for the kind words.. and life, the person you're arguing with isn't worth the effort, just put him on ignore as I did. only reason sonist hasn't made my list yet is he makes me laugh.. "rights to install software.." still has me chuckling.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by scottjl

Sonist, I'm guessing you don't work with technology or you'd know that neither Flash nor a full JVM environment are well suited to run on mobile processors....:

Maybe you should broaden your news reading habits.

Flash 10.1 on Android 2.2

http://www.androidtapp.com/official-...r-android-2-2/

I don't mean to be rude, but are your constant harping and general failure to stay on point signs of senility, or just an angry geezer being mad at the changing world?

Please place me on your ignore list.

[scottjl]

Great, and I'm sure you can just run down to your local phone shop and pick one up, today, right now. Right? You go do that and I'll wait right here. You hurry along.

Oh, that's right. You can't!

Again, you make me laugh.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by lifevicarious

+1, I gave him some of mine since you couldnt.

Thanks !

[rock]

So you've taken two, brand new, identically spec'd laptops or netbooks, ran a flash site on one and and another process on a second and let them go until the battery died? And you didn't see a difference?

Have you?

But yes I have I work in IT and I have have access to many Laptops and netbooks in our company, and we have to test the hardware to match the CEO's and Vice Presidents demands.

And you must have a custom built netbook that handles flash differently then every other comptuer on the planet. That must be worth some serious bucks!! Why are you waiting until the price comes down on an iPad??

Also why pay 500 dollars for an iPad when I have an iPhone? Thank you. My netbook was 270 bucks after mail-rebate of 40 dollars. Which was almost a year ago.

Again I said you haven't read other threads. dmaul has said he never had issues, Sonists owns macs and said she never has issues. I mean really you are just repeating Steve Jobs with no backup.

OK, sorry, 1/3rd less battery and twice the weight (and I can't connect anywhere unless I buy a separate device and lock into a contract). And why do I doubt you actually get 9 hours? Oh, that's right, you have a 'special' netbook

.

Erm again you fail with that point. Netbooks have sim cards too. Seach MSI Wind. Hell Search MSI Wind 9 hours. Really do you know anything? Do research before you try to be funny and say something does not exist. It's called 9 cell batteries. Seriously if you went to google you probably wouldn't embarrass yourself like that.

The wind has an eco mode set in the bios that allows you to use less battery and get up to nine hours.

Also if I bought iPad wifi i would need a seperate device as well. What a horrible argument.

Also another misconception. Flash is not just a video player. That is all.[

I certainly didn't say it was only a video player, in fact, the fact that it isn't only a video player is another MAJOR reason it won't work well on a touch device. Most flash apps require mouse overs, pretty difficult to do on a touch device.

That was not directed towards you that was directed to people who only think flash is a video. on the Droid that kind of stuff pops up on a window overlapping (not flash stuff of course, but certain rollover adds) But where is your proof it doesn't work well? I don't have proof it works well so you can't say it as fact. Again just repeating Steve Jobs open letter.

Also I didn't really want to get into your mobile devices argument, because really Blackberry as how big of an install base, and the internet hasn't changed. So you think because Apple now has an install base in the smartphone market it is going to change now? That is why I said I am not including Phones in the argument. There are many windows mobile phones, many android phones, Palm OS, etc, and no one was talking about the end of flash then. Steve Jobs targeted netbooks when he was announcing the iPad, not smartphones.

[lifevicarious]

Originally Posted by rock

Have you?

But yes I have I work in IT and I have have access to many Laptops and netbooks in our company, and we have to test the hardware to match the CEO's and Vice Presidents demands.

And your CEO's and VP's demand battery performance from flash sites? You are the one that has said you have seen no difference. Systems resources are directly related to battery performance and the flash player utilizes a lot of system resources.

Originally Posted by rock

Also why pay 500 dollars for an iPad when I have an iPhone? Thank you.

Why did you pay what you paid for a netbook when I assume you have a laptop and/or desktop? Or are you the only person in IT who works solely from a netbook? Perhaps you wanted other features? You have a droid and a iPhone, why is it a stretch to have an iPad with an iPhone? Lots of people do.

Originally Posted by rock

Again I said you haven't read other threads. dmaul has said he never had issues, Sonists owns macs and said she never has issues. I mean really you are just repeating Steve Jobs with no backup.

And you're refuting him with nothing more then anecdotal evidence.


.

Originally Posted by rock

Erm again you fail with that point. Netbooks have sim cards too. Seach MSI Wind. Hell Search MSI Wind 9 hours. Really do you know anything? Do research before you try to be funny and say something does not exist. It's called 9 cell batteries. Seriously if you went to google you probably wouldn't embarrass yourself like that.

Here you go, I googled your battery and found a test. Who's embarrassed now? Wow, less then 9 hours, who would have though?
http://blog.laptopmag.com/new-msi-wi...f-battery-life

And that battery costs $180.00, more then a third the price of a iPad for more then 25% less performance based on actual tests (all tests I have seen have been well over the claimed 10)

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...rformance.html

Originally Posted by rock

Also if I bought iPad wifi i would need a seperate device as well. What a horrible argument.

What separate device would you need? A computer? You already said you have one of those.

Originally Posted by rock

That was not directed towards you that was directed to people who only think flash is a video. on the Droid that kind of stuff pops up on a window overlapping (not flash stuff of course, but certain rollover adds) But where is your proof it doesn't work well? I don't have proof it works well so you can't say it as fact. Again just repeating Steve Jobs open letter.

First off, common sense. It's pretty hard to deal with hover overs when hover overs are impossible on a touch screen. But if you don't believe me, here's a professionals comments.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/0...ant-use-flash/

Thanks for the tip on Google! This is the first I have heard of it but it's preventing me a lot of embarrassment!!

[rock]

And your CEO's and VP's demand battery performance from flash sites? You are the one that has said you have seen no difference. Systems resources are directly related to battery performance and the flash player utilizes a lot of system resources.

Yes he goes to a lot of stock sites which run flash, watches a lot of videos of marketing ads. I said Flash doesn't kill as quickly as some people make it out to be.

Why did you pay what you paid for a netbook when I assume you have a laptop and/or desktop? Or are you the only person in IT who works solely from a netbook? Perhaps you wanted other features? You have a droid and a iPhone, why is it a stretch to have an iPad with an iPhone? Lots of people do.

You know what they say about assumptions. My netbook replaced my dead M140laptop. I want an iPad, but I am not paying 500 bucks for it. What are people not allowed to wait for it to get cheaper? I mean seriously. My desktop is used for heavy things like programming gaming, and downloading things that are in the gigabytes of size. I have a work laptop that I use at work. My netbook is for everything else.

Why pay 500 bucks when they only thing it has that the iPhone doesn't is iBooks (at least what I care about).

And you're refuting him with nothing more then anecdotal evidence.


.

i'll give you that one.

Here you go, I googled your battery and found a test. Who's embarrassed now? Wow, less then 9 hours, who would have though?
http://blog.laptopmag.com/new-msi-wi...f-battery-life

And that battery costs $180.00, more then a third the price of a iPad for more then 25% less performance based on actual tests (all tests I have seen have been well over the claimed 10)

http://blog.laptopmag.com/msi-launch...f-battery-life

Second one down. Good job only looking at the first hit.

Also the battery is 50 bucks.
http://www.amazon.com/Laptop-Battery.../dp/B001O3RSO8

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...rformance.html

I never disputed iPad battery life. And that article just confirms what I said about the length. Never said iPad was bad.

What separate device would you need? A computer? You already said you have one of those.

What seperate device did you need for a netbook? Come on listen to your own arguments. And I meant a wireless router since that is what I thought you meant, but now I beleive you meant a USB modem.

First off, common sense. It's pretty hard to deal with hover overs when hover overs are impossible on a touch screen. But if you don't believe me, here's a professionals comments.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/0...ant-use-flash/

Thanks for the tip on Google! This is the first I have heard of it but it's preventing me a lot of embarrassment!!

WHY iPad can't handle not all touch devices. Like I said flash is never going to be on iPad, but I hate seeing people giving out wrong advice about flash.

Wait until Android 2.2 and Flash 10.1 comes out before you say it won't work. You don't know that until you see it.

[rock]

Also here is a video of Flash on Droid.

If it works that well when released that's great. I am waiting to see though for myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8wuJ129d0w

[lifevicarious]

Originally Posted by rock

You know what they say about assumptions. My netbook replaced my dead M140laptop. I want an iPad, but I am not paying 500 bucks for it. What are people not allowed to wait for it to get cheaper? I mean seriously. My desktop is used for heavy things like programming gaming, and downloading things that are in the gigabytes of size. I have a work laptop that I use at work. My netbook is for everything else.

Why pay 500 bucks when they only thing it has that the iPhone doesn't is iBooks (at least what I care about).

So it sounds like you have a desktop AND a laptop AND a netbook. What do they say about assumptions??

You can wait as long as you want, I could care less but I don't think the price will actually go down. The only device that has really ever gone down in price is the iPhone. You will certainly get more features and more memory for the same price, but I don't expect it to go below the $500 mark.

Originally Posted by rock

http://blog.laptopmag.com/msi-launch...f-battery-life

Second one down. Good job only looking at the first hit.

Also the battery is 50 bucks.
http://www.amazon.com/Laptop-Battery.../dp/B001O3RSO8

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...rformance.html

I'm not understanding what I missed in the second one down. Can you explain?

Originally Posted by rock

What seperate device did you need for a netbook? Come on listen to your own arguments. And I meant a wireless router since that is what I thought you meant, but now I beleive you meant a USB modem.

I meant a USB modem but you are right, netbooks typically have built in sim cards, I shoudl have said laptops. But I believe almost all netbooks also require a contract for access but could be wrong.

Originally Posted by rock

WHY iPad can't handle not all touch devices. Like I said flash is never going to be on iPad, but I hate seeing people giving out wrong advice about flash.

Wait until Android 2.2 and Flash 10.1 comes out before you say it won't work. You don't know that until you see it.

Personally, I'm not one to base facts on what might happen. It's not wrong advice until 2.2 and 10.1 are out, and then it needs to be shown on those devices. Until then it's right advice. Why do you think it took years to get on Android if it's so great, doesn't eat up battery life, and utilizes hover over just like your normal computer does?

[rock]

I'm not understanding what I missed in the second one down. Can you explain?

Second hit from google is the 9 hour Msi wind.

Personally, I'm not one to base facts on what might happen. It's not wrong advice until 2.2 and 10.1 are out, and then it needs to be shown on those devices. Until then it's right advice. Why do you think it took years to get on Android if it's so great, doesn't eat up battery life, and utilizes hover over just like your normal computer does?

I posted a video and there are more on youtube showing flash at events. I understand that it might not work when it hits, but then again it might, but some people are making it out like it will never work period.

Also I only paid 100 bucks for my iPhone, so to pay 400 more is not worth it to me right now. If there was a killer app on their that would make me salivate over it,I might but right now no. Especially with rumors already swirling that iPad 2.0 is being worked on to add webcam and other things.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by scottjl

Great, and I'm sure you can just run down to your local phone shop and pick one up, today, right now. Right? You go do that and I'll wait right here. You hurry along.

Oh, that's right. You can't!

Again, you make me laugh.

Are 14 days beyond your ability to extrapolate?

May 20th: Flash, full Flash, Flash 10.1, with hardware acceleration, integrated in Android OS 2.2.

BTW, I've noticed you are easily entertained....

Cheers.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by nikkie

This is not particularly true.
Brew application on verizon phones all require Brew developer certs ....

Until recently, a surprising number of phones were VERY locked down, such that one couldn't develop an application for them even if they wanted to. On certain platforms you could develop an app, but there was (1) no means for distribution or (2) the distribution network cost a fortune and required legitimate business backing, prohibiting exploration of the mobile space....

I don't know Brew, but I trust you are right.

But I was initially a Palm OS user (O.K., had a Newton way, way back), then got WM 6+, then finally, when the iPhone got GPS, I got one (although my wife has had an iPhone since the first version).

Neither Palm, nor WM, had nowhere near the restrictions of the iPhone.

Initially, I was in love with the iPhone, but basic stuff, like marginal GPS performance, the long wait for cut and paste, and now the Flash and Java ban, have made me disillusioned with the platform. There is a good chance that when the HTC Evo comes out, I will dump my iPhone and switch to Android (and immediately install OS 2.2 on it

The iPad is a watershed product, with great design, but fundamentally flawed, IMO.

I think Jobs is biting more than he can chew, and the i-platform will become another market niche. He failed with Apple TV, and failed to gather support for his plan to get TV and movie bundles within the iPad ecosystem. Such exclusives would have ensured the long-term viability of the iPad.

Instead, Google is gathering steam in mobiles, and now is moving into TV as well. Their ecosystem is much more open and thus potentially more robust, and IMO within a couple of years will have a dominant presence.

Anyway, don't mean to hijack your thread, although it has already been turned into a free-for-all.

[HansTWN]

And most telling was the comment from someone "there are no problems with the iPad, the problem is how some people use it". I only hope that person was making a joke.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by scottjl

Great, and I'm sure you can just run down to your local phone shop and pick one up, today, right now. Right? You go do that and I'll wait right here. You hurry along.

Yep -- too funny. All this talk about Apple when NOBODY has great flash on phones. When I read that Android 2.2 was going to come with flash -- I read that as "Android 2.2 will be delayed".

Flash 10.1 -- in beta -- latest due date is this fall -- over a year and a half past promise date.

Mind you -- I'm not in the "I don't want flash on the iPad" crowd. I simply understand that Jobs has good reasons for the choice. I'd just prefer to have the option to have my battery run down in a couple hours if I wanted to see flash content.

Lee