Seriousness Electric Cars : BYD - Page 10

Steven Lyle Jordan · 05-04-2010, 01:32 PM

Well, I can't say it looks particularly attractive to me... but then, I've never liked "wagon-wheels." Still, I'd check it out. If, of course, it's available to check out...

wodin · 05-04-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Steam might not be the ideal fuel for an engine. But possibly using some other source of existing heat (such as tire and brake friction) to convert to electrical or compressive energy would be a better use of heat exchange. When added to the electric plant of an EV, it could provide additional power for acceleration, or help to power on-board devices.

Steam is NOT fuel! It is an energy transfer medium, just as mechanical drive shafts or electricity are. In the case of steam propulsion, fuel is used to heat water in boilers, causing a phase transformation from liquid to gas (steam), which is then piped to an engine that converts the heat energy in the steam to mechanical energy to, in the case of an automobile, turn the drive wheels.

The advantage of steam for automobiles is that it can directly turn heat in the form of high temperatures into rotational mechanical energy. It is not the only way, nor at the scale of passenger vehicles is it the most efficient. The disadvantages, as has been noted, is the danger of steam leaks, and the weight and complexity of the various systems involved.

Some lower temperature liquid/gas cycle e.g. Freon, or CO2, or ammonia might be viable though.

wodin · 05-04-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Don't forget that Federal rebate... brings the cost down to about $25,000. (And you'd probably qualify the the Federal rebates for renewable energy by putting that PV farm in your back yard!) Still a bit pricey compared to the smallest cars, but about the same as an average American ride. It's still at the top of my list for 2015-2020, depending on how the other carmakers respond...

I was poking around the Nissan LEAF website, and looking at the infrastructure requirements. I wonder if it would be possible, regulations wise, to wire directly into the grid with a separate meter to alleviate the issue of antiquated house wiring. It takes a 220/240V 40 amp dedicated circuit for an 8 hour home charge (quite a PV farm!), but if you could tap the grid directly there should be no reason you couldn’t have a 440 V ½ hour quick charger.

Alexander Turcic · 05-04-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Well, I can't say it looks particularly attractive to me... but then, I've never liked "wagon-wheels." Still, I'd check it out. If, of course, it's available to check out...

Yeah, the look is quite distinctive, and certainly doesn't attract everyone.

There is also video showing how it out-accelerates a Porsche 911 - for a few seconds anyway.

http://www.autobild.de/video/1379

WT Sharpe · 05-04-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

Yeah, the look is quite distinctive, and certainly doesn't attract everyone.

It may not attract everyone, but it certainly attracted everyone's attention in that first video!

Actually, the car is not bad looking when it has its clothes on. (I've been told the same thing.)

Steven Lyle Jordan · 05-04-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodin

Steam is NOT fuel!

Picky, picky...

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodin

I was poking around the Nissan LEAF website, and looking at the infrastructure requirements. I wonder if it would be possible, regulations wise, to wire directly into the grid with a separate meter to alleviate the issue of antiquated house wiring. It takes a 220/240V 40 amp dedicated circuit for an 8 hour home charge (quite a PV farm!), but if you could tap the grid directly there should be no reason you couldn’t have a 440 V ½ hour quick charger.

I wouldn't see why not, as long as the line from the grid can handle the load. And yeah, with today's tech you'd need a lot of PV cells to generate the power you'd need. Hopefully the PV cells around the corner will be cheaper and much more efficient at collecting energy... something like this.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 05-04-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

Yeah, the look is quite distinctive, and certainly doesn't attract everyone...

Wait... it's called the Fährt? um... look, this country has enough trouble with a reader called "nook..." Can we get a new name for the U.S., like Futur, or Shocke, or Henry, or something?

edit: Oh... I see... speed tests! Oh! Ah... well! That's okay then!

(I really should learn other languages...)

WT Sharpe · 05-04-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Wait... it's called the Fährt? um... look, this country has enough trouble with a reader called "nook..." Can we get a new name for the U.S., like Futur, or Shocke, or Henry, or something?

edit: Oh... I see... speed tests! Oh! Ah... well! That's okay then!

(I really should learn other languages...)

Now I know I want one, just so I can tell everyone, "I rode my Fährt to work today!"

Or if you want an unconventional pickup line to use at a bar: "Hey, baby! Wanna' sit in my Fährt?"

Lady Blue · 05-04-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Now I know I want one, just so I can tell everyone, "I rode my Fährt to work today!"

What a great pickup line to use at a bar: "Hey, baby! Wanna' sit in my Fährt?"

Thanks for that. I almost choked on my cookie.

WT Sharpe · 05-04-2010, 03:30 PM

In fact, I want one right off the assembly-line so I can be sure to enjoy that new-Fährt smell!

Greg Anos · 05-04-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

In fact, I want one right off the assembly-line so I can be sure to enjoy that new-Fährt smell!

Sounds like they were made for Red.....

Steven Lyle Jordan · 05-04-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Sounds like they were made for Red.....

Ah, look who came back for the Fährt jokes...

Is there a Godwin-type law that states that as any thread continues, the likelihood that bodily functions will enter the conversation approaches 1?

Greg Anos · 05-04-2010, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Ah, look who came back for the Fährt jokes...

Is there a Godwin-type law that states that as any thread continues, the likelihood that bodily functions will enter the conversation approaches 1?

I thought we were making badwin(d) jokes, not godwin ones..

More seriously, I looked at the ad, extolling the clean, unspoiled nature. Then I looked at the hydro dam just past the car....

(I'll take an Aptera, if they ever make it out the door.)

Darqref · 05-05-2010, 01:34 AM

I keep reading about the recharge time problems. It seems that to get a decently short battery charge, you need to go to a high(er) voltage and higher power level. The point about hooking your charge station directly to the power grid to avoid your house's antiquated wiring is interesting.

Is there any reasonable way to put some kind of a black box between the incoming power and the outgoing (to the car's battery) power that would change from a low(er) voltage/power to a higher voltage/power? I'm thinking of something like a super-capacitor, but the critical spec would be to allow efficient power input at low voltage, low current, and long time, but be able to discharge that black box at high voltage/ high current and short(er) time. Possibly a kinetic energy wheel, or maybe a Hydrogen/oxygen fuel cell.

The idea would be to allow either a PV cell array, or wind generator (that might not work continuously), or maybe just a regular household current from older, less capable wiring, to charge the black box. This could be done while the car is elsewhere. Then, when the car is available and needing a charge, to extract the power from the black box at high(er) speed.

If this were possible, AND it was reasonable to fuel it from a self-generated source (PV or wind or ?) then you might not care if there were extra efficiency losses in the conversion inside the black box. I know it would take a very large array to charge a car battery directly, but if you could buffer the array, would it work?

Next impossible question: make all this work in Seattle, where it's cloudy all winter.

Delta Tango · 05-05-2010, 01:44 AM

Well, the slow charge does not come from the inability of house wiring to provide high currents. It comes mostly from the battery longevity issues. In order to preserve it's capacity for many charges you need to charge it slowly.
Any house can cope with currents that would charge a car battery in couple of hours, but your battery would soon start to lose its properties.

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05-04-2010, 01:32 PM	#136
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	Well, I can't say it looks particularly attractive to me... but then, I've never liked "wagon-wheels." Still, I'd check it out. If, of course, it's available to check out...

05-04-2010, 03:30 PM	#145
WT Sharpe Bah, humbug! Posts: 39,072 Karma: 157049943 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.	In fact, I want one right off the assembly-line so I can be sure to enjoy that new-Fährt smell!

05-05-2010, 01:34 AM	#149
Darqref space cadet Posts: 333 Karma: 2999999 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle area Device: Rocket PRO, gen3, Pocketbook360	I keep reading about the recharge time problems. It seems that to get a decently short battery charge, you need to go to a high(er) voltage and higher power level. The point about hooking your charge station directly to the power grid to avoid your house's antiquated wiring is interesting. Is there any reasonable way to put some kind of a black box between the incoming power and the outgoing (to the car's battery) power that would change from a low(er) voltage/power to a higher voltage/power? I'm thinking of something like a super-capacitor, but the critical spec would be to allow efficient power input at low voltage, low current, and long time, but be able to discharge that black box at high voltage/ high current and short(er) time. Possibly a kinetic energy wheel, or maybe a Hydrogen/oxygen fuel cell. The idea would be to allow either a PV cell array, or wind generator (that might not work continuously), or maybe just a regular household current from older, less capable wiring, to charge the black box. This could be done while the car is elsewhere. Then, when the car is available and needing a charge, to extract the power from the black box at high(er) speed. If this were possible, AND it was reasonable to fuel it from a self-generated source (PV or wind or ?) then you might not care if there were extra efficiency losses in the conversion inside the black box. I know it would take a very large array to charge a car battery directly, but if you could buffer the array, would it work? Next impossible question: make all this work in Seattle, where it's cloudy all winter.

05-05-2010, 01:44 AM	#150
Delta Tango Groupie Posts: 161 Karma: 20000 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Device: Onyx Boox	Well, the slow charge does not come from the inability of house wiring to provide high currents. It comes mostly from the battery longevity issues. In order to preserve it's capacity for many charges you need to charge it slowly. Any house can cope with currents that would charge a car battery in couple of hours, but your battery would soon start to lose its properties.