Jobs speaks up about Flash

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by rock

To say Adobe is closed source is the pot calling the kettle black. H.264 is just as closed.

That's certainly one part I can agree with.

Jobs has no business EVER complaining about anything being a closed system given that's the biggest problem most people have with their OS and devices.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by rock

Dan Rayburn is an executive vice president at StreamingMedia.com and principal analyst at Frost & Sullivan.

That is who wrote that, so why is he less qualified? Bad comparison there, it makes you look like a blind supporter.

Does it make him more qualified somehow?

Let's see.. Streamingmedia.com is supported by... Adobe.

Streamingmedia.com's content is mostly produced in... Flash. Including their advertisements which generate them... Revenue!

Streaming Media's conferences have been sponsored by... Adobe.

Nevermind the fact that writing any article against Steve Jobs is likely to increase your hit count on your web site... Generating more... Revenue!

Hmm.. I'd say he's unbiased, wouldn't you?

[rock]

Adobe CEO answers to Job's essay in an interview


2

:36 pmAdd a Comment
Alan Murray begins the interview, calling Mr. Jobs's missive an "extraordinary attack." He asks Mr. Narayen what Adobe has done to deserve this.

2:40 pmAdd a Comment
Mr. Narayen says that the difference is that Adobe believes in open content. He says that their Creative Suite software was designed to work on multiple devices and that Apple's "recent behavior shows that they are concerned about Adobe being able" to provide this product that works across multiple platforms.

2:43 pmAdd a Comment
Mr. Murray likens the Apple-Adobe fight to that between reality TV stars Jon and Kate Gosselin and asks about the history between the two companies. Mr. Narayen says that Adobe has been "true to the position" with which it was founded and to the idea that it should help people deal with multiple operating systems.

2:45 pmAdd a Comment
Mr. Narayen talks about Adobe "certainly" shipping on Android's latest version. He says that it is an "incredibly productive time" for Adobe and discusses Creative Suite 5, saying that Adobe's "innovation is blowing people away."

2:47 pmAdd a Comment
The technology problems that Mr. Jobs mentions in his essay are "really a smokescreen," Mr. Narayen says. He says more than 100 applications that used Adobe's software were accepted in the App Store. "When you resort to licensing language" to restrict this sort of development, he says, it has "nothing to do with technology."

2:49 pmAdd a Commen
He says that Apple's restrictiveness is just going to make it "cumbersome" for developers who are trying to make products that work on many devices. They're going to have to have "two workflows" ... one for Apple devices and one for others.

2:51 pmAdd a Comment
Speaking about Mr. Jobs's assertion that Adobe is the No. 1 cause of Mac crashes, Mr. Narayen says if Adobe crashes Apple, that actually has something "to do with the Apple operating system."

2:52 pmAdd a Comment
Mr. Narayen calls accusations about Flash draining battery power "patently false." Speaking about Mr. Jobs's letter in general, he says that "for every one of these accusations made there is proprietary lock-in" that prevents Adobe from innovating.

2:53 pmAdd a Comment
Mr. Narayen poses a question to Alan Murray, asking him if the Journal would "want to have stovepipes" -- or separate development processes -- when it is creating content. Mr. Murray says that certainly "it would be better if you could use one set" of development tools.

2:53 pmAdd a Comment
Mr. Narayen says Adobe's concept is best for most businesses that are developing applications and allows them to send their apps out to many places rather than forcing them to decide on just one. "It doesn't benefit Apple, and that's why you see this reaction," he says.

2:54 pmAdd a Comment
Responding to a question about Mr. Jobs's assertion that Adobe is a closed platform, Mr. Narayen chuckles. "I find it amusing, honestly. Flash is an open specification," he says.

2:55 pmAdd a Comment
The Journal wants to know whether Mr. Narayen knows Steve Jobs. "I've met him on a number of occasions," he says.

2:55 pmAdd a Comment
"We have different views of the world," Mr. Narayen says. "Our view of the world is multi-platform."

2:56 pmAdd a Comment
Does Mr. Narayen use an iPhone? "I have a Google Nexus One device," he says. And what about the iPad? "I think it's a good first-generation device. I think you're going to see just tremendous innovation in terms of tablets." Adobe is, in fact, working with "dozens" of tablet projects with other companies, he says.

2:57 pmAdd a Comment
To conclude, Mr. Narayen says he's for "letting customers decide," but that the multi-platform world will "eventually prevail." And the interview wraps up

[rock]

Originally Posted by scottjl

Does it make him more qualified somehow?

Let's see.. Streamingmedia.com is supported by... Adobe.

Streamingmedia.com's content is mostly produced in... Flash.

Streaming Media's conferences have been sponsored by... Adobe.

Hmm.. I'd say he's unbiased, wouldn't you?

Principal Analyst? Did you forget that part? Just like Jobs isn't biased for Apple. Are you serious? You just like discredited your own argument.

[scottjl]

People, get your facts straight. The h.264 standard is an open standard and has been so since 2003. It is not owned by Apple nor Adobe.

[dmaul1114]

I had no idea on that part so I didn't reference it specifically. It's just laughable period for Jobs to complain about anything being closed given how controlled their systems are.

[rock]

Originally Posted by scottjl

People, get your facts straight. The h.264 standard is an open standard and has been so since 2003. It is not owned by Apple nor Adobe.

Please do not Quote Wikipedia as a source. EVER. I can go on there right now and change everything.

You complained about someone not using a good source, and you used Wikipedia.

And if you want to go by Wiki terms there, then Adobe is also an open standard as well.

H.264 is just a codec too.

It is still the pot calling the kettle black no matter what.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by rock

Principal Analyst? Did you forget that part? Just like Jobs isn't biased for Apple. Are you serious? You just like discredited your own argument.

My argument for what? All I did was point out that Mr. Rayburn (regardless of his title) has a biased interest in writing his article. Can't deny that. His paycheck is partially funded by Adobe. I never said Jobs isn't biased for Apple, feel free to quote where I did.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by rock

Please do not Quote Wikipedia as a source. EVER. I can go on there right now and change everything.

You complained about someone not using a good source, and you used Wikipedia.

http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-H.264

http://ip.hhi.de/imagecom_G1/assets/...rview_0305.pdf

Does that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside now? Enjoy!

And if you want to go by Wiki terms there, then Adobe is also an open standard as well.

Adobe Flash is not a programming or development standard recognized by any international body. Please feel free to correct me with facts if I am wrong.

Jeeze, don't they teach debate in schools any more? Way too many people pulling statements out of their asses and presenting them as facts.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by scottjl

Well unless you've done some sort of statistically valid survey saying "virtually all large companies run on Windows" is just yet more statement without facts to back it up from you.

Please name one large corporation (except Apple, I suppose), in the world, which runs Mac OS. As to servers, here is what a quick search found for you:

IIS Most Used Web Server Among Fortune 500 Sites - Microsoft's Internet Information Server - Product Information

Originally Posted by scottjl

The BI article was torn to shreds by the commentators below the article.

As for the opinion on your obscure blog, so that's the best you can do?

You are still not addressing any of the responses in either piece.

To keep it simple, I'll try a couple of specific quote, which responds to SJ's claim that Flash is 100% proprietary:

"If "open" was the highest priority for Apple, they wouldn't be pushing a proprietary video format, H.264.
If "open" was the highest priority for Apple, there would be Java on the iPad. But, of course, Java breaks the wall of the garden, just like Flash, so it's not allowed.
As to Flash, Steve must certainly be aware of the plethora of open source Flash projects, like MTASC or GNASH.
Take a look at Open Source Flash Projects for a bunch of other open source Flash projects.
But, most importantly, today much of the web employs Flash - whether Jobs likes it, or not. This is the reality we live in"

Is it true that there are open source Flash projects, or not?

On the other hand, as re either Mac OS, nor iPhone OS is open? Can you find a single open source project for the iPhone OS?

Or as to SJ's claim that the iPad has full web access, what is your argument against this quote:

"Anyone who uses an iPad can't get video from the websites of NFL.com, MLB.com, Petfinder.org, Amazon.com and many other really popular websites. So to say that users aren't missing much video and that almost all of this video is also available in H.264, is wrong and you can't argue with it. I guess Steve does not feel that the NFL and MLB sports leagues command that big of an audience. Use an iPad, go to those sites and see all the video you can't get."

Or while SJ is calling Adobe lazy and blaming them for not rewriting CS to Cocoa until v5, can you tell me why Final Cut, or even iTunes are still in Carbon?

Please limit yourself to answering the actual questions, instead of engaging in personal attacks. Maybe then we'll all learn something.

[rock]

Originally Posted by scottjl

My argument for what? All I did was point out that Mr. Rayburn (regardless of his title) has a biased interest in writing his article. Can't deny that. His paycheck is partially funded by Adobe. I never said Jobs isn't biased for Apple, feel free to quote where I did.

No you discredit Mr. Rayburn as being biased, so his article is moot.

But Steve Jobs write's his own article and it is just fine.

You can take somoene who is biased for Apple, but can't take someone who could be biased for Adobe?

I will say what the kids like to say today. FAIL.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by rock

No you discredit Mr. Rayburn as being biased, so his article is moot.

But Steve Jobs write's his own article and it is just fine.

You can take somoene who is biased for Apple, but can't take someone who could be biased for Adobe?

I will say what the kids like to say today. FAIL.

And you argue like a kid.

I really do not understand what point you are trying to make. I never said Jobs wasn't biased towards Apple. I simply said Rayburn has an obvious bias towards Adobe and that his interests in supporting Adobe aren't untainted. These are two completely separate and unrelated topics.

[rock]

Originally Posted by scottjl

Jeeze, don't they teach debate in schools any more? Way too many people pulling statements out of their asses and presenting them as facts.

Just like you are?

No you have to resort to personal attacks.

[rock]

Originally Posted by scottjl

And you argue like a kid.

I really do not understand what point you are trying to make. I never said Jobs wasn't biased towards Apple. I simply said Rayburn has an obvious bias towards Adobe and that his interests in supporting Adobe aren't untainted. These are two completely separate and unrelated topics.

Wow are are really that blind or are you not getting it?

You say Rayburn has an obvious Bias towards Adobe, and Steve Jobs doesn't?

You sir are the one who does not know how to argue. How are they unrelated? Steve Jobs writes essentially a blog on what he thinks of Adobe, and Rayburn points out where Jobs is wrong. So how are the unrelated? Please tell me, they are on the same subject.

[dmaul1114]

Come on guys, let's all calm down a bit....

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81927