iPad vs Sony Reader

[rwsimon]

Sorry for the double post, folks. I have no clue how that even happened.

[richman]

From a long term perspective, ANY time a revolutionary idea/product/ etc go through 3 stages:
1) people make fun of the idea and call it stupid and make fun of it.
2) then a period where the OLD way of doing stuff and the NEW way causes confusion and most people are starting to open up to the NEW IDEA.
3) then comes the time when , everybody says "of course, we always knew this PRODUCT/IDEA is true, it's common sense, and the OLD way is so old-fashioned and made FUN OF.

wright bros
japan can make cars that LAST and not 1 dollar crappy toys
steam engine
the earth is not flat but ROUND
tons of other examples

[sakura-panda]

I have a Sony PRS505 and I bought my iPad last Thursday.

For me, the two devices are not truely comparable. I didn't buy it as an ebook reader and have no intention of giving up my Sony. All of my reasons for purchasing the 505 are still valid and the device is still perfect for me needs.

I do have to admit that books are pretty on the iPad and I have reading plans for it, just not for it to be my exclusive ebook reader.

It all comes back down to personal preference. If I had bought my iPad to be an ebook reader, rather than a photo/video device, then I'm sure I would feel differently, but I bought it for other things and the book reader is only a bonus to me.

[frabjous]

Originally Posted by scottjl

7. customization (ability to change fonts, page colors, etc.): the 600 has a few font sizes and only one built in font. you can not change the page color. you can embed fonts into epub files. current ipad applications can not read embedded fonts, but you can change font faces, font colors, page colors, font sizes, screen brightness and more. ipad wins.

Why is that an iPad win? Apart from color, you can do the same customizations, and many more with font embedding, for the 600 so long as you do them before you load the ePub on your device.

On the other hand, there are ePubs (I'm working on one now) that simply will not display properly at all without embedded fonts.

Out of curiousity, does the iPad ebook software support SVGs?

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by frabjous

Why is that an iPad win? Apart from color, you can do the same customizations, and many more with font embedding, for the 600 so long as you do them before you load the ePub on your device.

On the other hand, there are ePubs (I'm working on one now) that simply will not display properly at all without embedded fonts.

Out of curiousity, does the iPad ebook software support SVGs?

hey. it was my posting. i'll flag it as a win if i want to.

seriously though.. the only thing missing, at this time, is the ability to support embedded fonts. which someone will probably take care of soon enough. it might be a big thing to some people, but to the majority, i doubt it is. the ipad can change text colors, background colors, and choose among several font faces. in addition to the look of the page graphic itself (stone tablet, parchment, computer CRT, heck, they could even make it look like an eInk screen!), include beautiful full color graphics and animation (see the new Alice book), animate page turns (some people seem to love it). and the list goes on with respect to what the iPad can display on it's color LCD screen that something like my sony 600 8 level grey scale eInk can't.

the iPad can display everything an eInk screen can right now, and is only missing one feature, working with embedded fonts. I'd say that's a win for the iPad.

[frabjous]

Originally Posted by scottjl

hey. it was my posting. i'll flag it as a win if i want to.

seriously though.. the only thing missing, at this time, is the ability to support embedded fonts. which someone will probably take care of soon enough. ...

the iPad can display everything an eInk screen can right now, and is only missing one feature, working with embedded fonts. I'd say that's a win for the iPad.

In your original post you were breaking things down into categories. I'll happily admit that the iPad wins a lot of categories. But I interpreted that part of your original post as being about fonts in particular, and the ipad loses that category.

Embedded fonts are a hugely big deal to me, and even more so since the iPad does not support the full unicode character set with its native fonts. This is going to make it a big deal for huge segments of the globe whose language it not only doesn't support, but can't be made to support through the otherwise simple solution of embedding a font.

Yes, hopefully "someone" will take care of it soon, but that "someone" had better be Apple. It's no good if you have to pay for some third party app to support font embedding; it needs to be in the default book reader.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by cmdahler

Nah, the 505 has nothing on the iPad. Even Apple's incomplete implementation of ePub is way better than Sony's. Of course I'm a typical MR snob - isn't that what 95% of the people here are? I'm glad you still like your 505 - it looks like a toy to me now that I've got this iPad, though. Happy reading!

According to all I have read so far, the 505's ePub is better overall then what you get out of iBook.

I did like the txr app for ePub on the iPod Touch, but there is yet to be a version for the iPad.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by scottjl

hey. it was my posting. i'll flag it as a win if i want to.

seriously though.. the only thing missing, at this time, is the ability to support embedded fonts. which someone will probably take care of soon enough. it might be a big thing to some people, but to the majority, i doubt it is. the ipad can change text colors, background colors, and choose among several font faces. in addition to the look of the page graphic itself (stone tablet, parchment, computer CRT, heck, they could even make it look like an eInk screen!), include beautiful full color graphics and animation (see the new Alice book), animate page turns (some people seem to love it). and the list goes on with respect to what the iPad can display on it's color LCD screen that something like my sony 600 8 level grey scale eInk can't.

the iPad can display everything an eInk screen can right now, and is only missing one feature, working with embedded fonts. I'd say that's a win for the iPad.

You never did mention if iBook can handle SVG.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by frabjous

In your original post you were breaking things down into categories. I'll happily admit that the iPad wins a lot of categories. But I interpreted that part of your original post as being about fonts in particular, and the ipad loses that category.

Embedded fonts are a hugely big deal to me, and even more so since the iPad does not support the full unicode character set with its native fonts. This is going to make it a big deal for huge segments of the globe whose language it not only doesn't support, but can't be made to support through the otherwise simple solution of embedding a font.

Yes, hopefully "someone" will take care of it soon, but that "someone" had better be Apple. It's no good if you have to pay for some third party app to support font embedding; it needs to be in the default book reader.

i meant that section to be on display of pages. fonts would be included in that. as you say, embedded fonts is a huge deal to you, but i'm guessing to 90% of the people out there, it isn't. i have over 500 ebooks and not a single one has an embedded font. so obviously that isn't important to me.

as for "someone". it doesn't have to be apple at all. apple didn't include the excellent PDF support GoodReader has and I didn't mind paying the buck for for it. don't expect Apple to deliver the best application for everything, ibooks does the basics very well, for the rest, there's the app store. and don't go faulting apple on this, i don't see microsoft including an amazing ebook reader in windows or windows mobile. android doesn't include a do-all ebook reader either.

also, the ipad isn't available globally yet, so for the US character set, the support is just fine. maybe when they release it globally they'll include better language support.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You never did mention if iBook can handle SVG.

because i didn't know the answer..

quick google search for "ipad svg" reveals:

http://opentype.info/blog/2010/04/13...mobile-safari/

[dmaul1114]

I've never understood the obsession some have with fonts.

To each their own I guess. Text is text to me. Any of the standard fonts are fine by me.

[frabjous]

Originally Posted by scottjl

don't expect Apple to deliver the best application for everything, ibooks does the basics very well, for the rest, there's the app store. and don't go faulting apple on this, i don't see microsoft including an amazing ebook reader in windows or windows mobile. android doesn't include a do-all ebook reader either.

Well, they don't market their product as ebook readers, which Apple certainly has been doing. People are going to expect to get decent ebook reading support out of the box. They shouldn't have to buy another application, and when, e.g., a perfectly valid ePub doesn't display right on the iPad, the customer may well think it's a problem with the book rather than their software.

But comparing them to other companies isn't really relevant. Microsoft's level of incompetence is beyond the pale. With Android, it's mostly open source, and anyone can develop for it, so if they came out with a device with similar problems, it would be a problem anyone could contributing to fixing. Apple products are so closed that you couldn't even fix the problem locally on your own device even if you knew how.

also, the ipad isn't available globally yet, so for the US character set, the support is just fine. maybe when they release it globally they'll include better language support.

The "US character set"? What's that? People in the US don't speak languages other than English? They don't do mathematics? Yes, actually, we do. Last I checked, I live here too.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by frabjous

Well, they don't market their product as ebook readers, which Apple certainly has been doing. People are going to expect to get decent ebook reading support out of the box. They shouldn't have to buy another application, and when, e.g., a perfectly valid ePub doesn't display right on the iPad, the customer may well think it's a problem with the book rather than their software.

Apple does not market the iPad as an ebook reader, it is a media device that also does ebooks. I can read any of my 500+ stored eBooks with little difficulty, so I'd say it's got decent support out of the box. So customers shouldn't have to buy other applications? Then why have the App store? Should I expect Apple to cater to everyones whims and include every application I can think of bundled into the OS? Oh wait, Microsoft did that and got investigated for being a monopoly. My Mac didn't come with a word processor or spreadsheet, I really should go back and complain to Jobs about that.

But comparing them to other companies isn't really relevant. Microsoft's level of incompetence is beyond the pale. With Android, it's mostly open source, and anyone can develop for it, so if they came out with a device with similar problems, it would be a problem anyone could contributing to fixing. Apple products are so closed that you couldn't even fix the problem locally on your own device even if you knew how.

Wait, so you expect Apple to include software that does everything you want, perfectly, but no one else has to meet that obligation? A tad bit unfair I'd say. You excuse Microsoft because you say they are incompetent, maybe they are, but look what happened last time they tried to include the kitchen sink. As for Android, so you expect mom to go and code up her own open source application because Google didn't include it? As I said, funny how you have different standards for different companies.

The "US character set"? What's that? People in the US don't speak languages other than English? They don't do mathematics? Yes, actually, we do. Last I checked, I live here too.

The iPad is only available in the US at this time. The US has one official language, English. English has one character set. Apple met their obligations to include this character set in the US available iPad. Actually they do include support for several other languages as well, but I don't know the extent of that support because I use my iPad in English. What you speak at home is irrelevant. When the iPad comes out for a foreign market you'd certainly have the option to by the iPad targeted specifically at that market if you wanted to run natively in another language. Did you really expect Apple to include a rosetta stone in the box? Be happy with the Apple stickers. As for a math font, well, go email Jobs and see if you can get him to include it. A mathematica type application might do pretty well on the iPad. I'm happily still using my HP48.

I've never understood the obsession some have with fonts.

To each their own I guess. Text is text to me. Any of the standard fonts are fine by me.

For most people out there, I strongly suspect the iPad is all the eBook reader they will need.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by scottjl

Apple does not market the iPad as an ebook reader, it is a media device that also does ebooks.

Agreed, they showed off iBooks pretty far into the announcement press conference. Books aren't much of a focus of the TV ad currently etc.

Remember, Jobs said people don't read anymore. They're marketing it as a media tablet, e-books is just one part of that, and one they aren't focusing a lot of marketing on.

For most people out there, I strongly suspect the iPad is all the eBook reader they will need.

Agree 100%. For most people text is text. But this is an e-book site so you have to deal with the die hard hobbyists who are much pickier.

I know you left for a while and went to some iPad sites, can you give some links? All I remember is that joyofipad site, but it seems pretty slow.

Even better, a link to a forum that's iPad/iPhone, Android devices etc. so I can keep up on all the Tablets coming out--with more focus than just their e-reading abilities. A US focus would be nice too, to not have to wade through gripes about poor international support etc. that doesn't affect me.

Not being an avid reader, I'd be better off (and get annoyed less often) than at this site which is for avid readers.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by scottjl

because i didn't know the answer..

quick google search for "ipad svg" reveals:

http://opentype.info/blog/2010/04/13...mobile-safari/

...and what about embedded SWF files? Like Adobe Digital Editions supports? Oh, that's right...