Seriously thoughtful Let's be civil, please

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

I have chocolate, anyone want any .... ?

Please!!

I'm even forming an orderly queue

[GeoffC]

orderly queue's not required - a mass scramble can be catered for ....

[jinlo]

While I applaud Donnageddon in trying to reduce the acrimony, I remain convinced it’s not necessarily the topic that is causing the upheaval, though I will admit some topics tend to turn heated much faster than others.

In the larger scheme of things, you have formed a family of sorts and like all families you’re going through some hard times right now. It’s not surprising because you’re also growing. Suddenly there’s a new son-in-law that doesn’t quite see things as everyone else or there’s a new baby and accommodations have to be made and focus rearranged. This is going to cause conflict whether you are discussing politics, religion or Mark Twain.

You can do your best to remind people to remain civil and even try to curtail the topics discussed, but you can’t always speed through the rough times as fast as you want.

There is, however, always hope. There are enough of you committed toward making this group work that I have faith things will turn around. Personality conflicts will eventually sort themselves out. People learn to accept others, ignore them, or they move on. Over time the family regroups, people accept the change, and happier times return. Eventually, you will get beyond this as well. Things may never be exactly the same as they once were or as certain members recall, but that is pretty much how things work out for all families.

[beppe]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

orderly queue's not required - a mass scramble can be catered for ....

Are you, by any chance, from Hamelin?

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

orderly queue's not required - a mass scramble can be catered for ....

In which case...

CHOCOLATE!!!

:divesinheadfirst:

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Donnageddon

Topics like DRM, global restrictions, book banning, etc. Are inherently part of this forums reach.

But what does Health Care Reform, Global Warming, and the US's various wars have to do with ebooks?

Opening disclaimer: While I'm not in favor of banning topics at MR, I *am* in favor of shutting down not-directly-ebook-related posts as soon as they start getting heated, instead of waiting, as we generally do with ebookish posts, to see if other commenters are going to "revive" the useful discussion part of the thread.

1) Health care reform, like *anything* that affects take-home income, affects the money one has available to spend on books. It may affect what technologies a person has access to--someone who couldn't afford a good text-to-speech program, or access to books with TTS enabled, might have access under a different insurance program. Inasmuch as it can affect privacy and government monitoring of personal activities, it's relevant to ebook purchases. A shift in insurance funding might change things like doctors' offices reading material--some offices might get ebook readers for their waiting rooms.

I'll admit all those are a stretch, but we've had more tangential discussions show up. It's much more likely that the closest "health care reform" as a topic gets to ebookery is "I used my Kindle to read the gov't website where the changes were described."

2) Global warming, as a change in environment, affects technology industries, which is *very* on-topic for MR. If the rules governing factories change, ebook readers may become more or less available. (I'd guess less. We're pretty far down the list, when the Powers That Be discuss essential technology.) People who have readers in part because of their "green" attributes may be very interested in the carbon footprint of a device, and the factories that make them, and the potential effect of those factories on global weather patterns.

3) There are "get ebooks to soldiers" programs, or attempts to create those programs. There are discussions of whether ebook readers are good gifts for soldiers. Shutting down all talk of US wars would mean shutting down any discussion of the soldiers' ebook activities, unless the mods get draconian about editing individual posts to keep the "ebook" content and remove the "political" content. Can't reasonably allow discussions about soldiers without allowing some discussion of what they're doing that makes them soldiers. (Again, unless the mods will allow "I want to get a collection of ebooks to put on an SD card to send to a soldier" but remove the part of the post that says "...because supporting our troops any way I can is my patriotic duty.")

School & education isn't directly on topic here either, but we do discuss how ebooks are of interest to students, and how some schools are experimenting with ebook readers. Military use of the same tech is more rare, but possible... how long before some charity or another decides to donate 500 iPads to "deserving soldiers?"

All of those are tangential, and not directly related, and we've had plenty of discussions of all three topics that don't touch ebooks & ebook readers at all. And those should be monitored, and shut down when & if they get heated. But banning the topics themselves would mean shutting out the *possibility* of ebook discussions that relate to them.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by beppe

Are you, by any chance, from Hamelin?

Hamleys ? the toy shop in London .... nah .... that's kid's stuff . .... !!!!

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

In which case...

CHOCOLATE!!!

:divesinheadfirst:

by the look of your hair, you did that many times ....

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Yes. I believe in free speech. I believe everyone can behave as adults and follow the guidelines. If not they can be warned and then banned. It's quite simple really.

Originally Posted by Donnageddon

Of course, you believe in freedom of speech, but this is NOT about freedom of speech.

And of course the mods will draw the line concerning the rules of mobileread. BUT there is a line, and again, the discussion is where that line can be most effectively, and for mods sake, efficiently drawn, for an ebook forum.

Originally Posted by kennyc

And that is up to them, not you.

Are you thinking someone is going to force you to participate in those threads or something? Why would it even matter to you if you don't read them?

Originally Posted by Donnageddon

I am going to leave this thread as it stands before I get uncivilized.

Have fun, Kenny.

The main thing is, no, you don't get to say anything that you want at any time that you want, here or on any privately owned forum. What we are trying to do, as moderators, is find where the line should be drawn. Donnageddon feels strongly that the line should be short and close to the topics of e-readers, etc. Kenny feels that it should be broader and more open. I feel that it should be somewhere in the middle, perhaps more close to Donnageddon's line than Kenny's. But it is not my call. I have a say, as a moderator, but we are having discussion on how to determine the place to cut things off as moderators. It is not an easy decision.

[dsvick]

I don't get online much over the weekends so I seem to have missed all the fun in this thread, which may be a good thing

My thoughts...

Don't ban the topics, they serve their purpose and most of them don't end up getting closed. On the other hand the mods should feel free to shut one down as soon as it starts getting out of hand.

The biggest problem, at least the biggest problem I have, with some of the posts is that the ones that really get under my skin are the ones that are presented as statements of fact when they are really someones opinion. For example, saying "America's blatant lie and misdirection when they fabricated the original moon landing and filmed it in the New Mexican desert" is quite a bit more inflammatory than "I think the moon landings were faked". Things stated that way make it sound like the author is precluding any sort of argument or civil discussion and it is that closed mindedness that, I think, really sets people off.

Sure, it is ok to be an armchair politician, military expert, theologian or whatever is being discussed. But, as has been mentioned, don't come across as having the one and only opinion on a subject, you have to be prepared to listen to and accept others opinions on it as well, especially people who may have more knowledge of it. People that have served in the military, or others in different professions have an insight into them that others do not and discounting that opinion simply because they have that experience is disrespectful and shows a certain degree of intolerance. On the other hand, having that experience does not mean that yours is the one and only correct opinion either.

We should have discussions and try to persuade others, if you can't be open to other opinions and be willing to accept that you might be wrong then perhaps you should refrain the discussions.

[GeoffC]

Ultimately the line will be drawn by Alex ?

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

3) There are "get ebooks to soldiers" programs, or attempts to create those programs.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of when I made the "if no anti-military, then no pro-military" comment. I still have a strong memory of this thread from early in my readership:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61558

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of when I made the "if no anti-military, then no pro-military" comment. I still have a strong memory of this thread from early in my readership:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61558

and it was post#4 that started the battle ....

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of when I made the "if no anti-military, then no pro-military" comment. I still have a strong memory of this thread from early in my readership:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61558

That is an example of a thread that quickly got out of hand and needed to be shut down more quickly than it did. And an example of what I am asking people to stay away from.

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of when I made the "if no anti-military, then no pro-military" comment.

And I say don't ban either. Let them go, as long as the participants are civil and well behaved there is no harm done and the people taking part in them may, if they are open to it, learn something from each other.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by dsvick

And I say don't ban either. Let them go, as long as the participants are civil and well behaved there is no harm done and the people taking part in them may, if they are open to it, learn something from each other.

Topics themselves do not necessarily need banning, but the comments posted have to be sensible....

But if there is a fear that deleting a thread constitutes censorship, then I'm not too sure why closing it down for further posts does not....

Surely leaving a thread in existence, but closed, shows idle lookers that the posts remain tolerated.