What is the real purpose of DRM?

[Kali Yuga]

Ok peoples. When it comes to ebooks, DRM rarely locks you to a specific reading device.

For example, DRMed books purchased from B&N can be read on their proprietary device (the Nook). And on iPhones, iPod Touches, PC's, Macs and Blackberries. Amazon Kindle books are on the Kindle, iPhone, iPad, PC and Mac. It's reasonable that Android versions will also be available, and additional tablet OS's are practically a given. AFAIK the Adobe ebook DRM is also cross-platform.

There's also a ton of ways to get DRM-free public domain ebooks. B&N can slap whatever DRM they want onto a Charles Dickens book, that is extraordinarily unlikely to prevent readers from getting open versions.

This is a bit of an exception, as DRM is often used for vendor lock-ins. But for whatever reason(s), that does not seem to be the case with a lot of ebook retailers.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by Ankh

Sigh... They have exclusive rights to the content. They can, pretty much, do whatever they please with that content, including, but not limited to, infecting it with DRM before offering it for sale.

No competition, hence no way for customers to fight back.

This is largely incorrect.

You are correct in that it is illegal to, for example, publish a tool or disseminate instructions for how to circumvent a DRM model.

However, putting DRM on content that is in the public domain does not magically re-apply copyright. E.g. B&N often puts out its own ebooks of texts that are in the public domain. While it may be illegal for me to invent a tool that cracks their DRM scheme, they cannot in any way, shape or form prevent me from redistributing that PD text.

Even if they somehow became the only publisher of that text, I will still have the legal right to transcribe it into another form (paper or electronic) and distribute it in any method and at any price point I choose.

I.e. adding DRM does not, and cannot, re-establish any sort of exclusivity or equivalent of copyright protection to a public domain text.

Now, in some cases a company like B&N or Penguin will add essays or similar content to a PD text. That material can by copyrighted. However, the rest of the text is still in the public domain.

Similarly, if the text is still in copyright, short of signing an exclusive contract with a retailer, the rights-holder can distribute that title in any fashion they see fit. B&N putting DRM on a Stephen King book does not in any way, shape or form prevent Amazon, Apple or Sony from selling the book as well.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Ok peoples. When it comes to ebooks, DRM rarely locks you to a specific reading device.

Right. DRM always locks you in to a specific vendor. Which leaves you at the vendor's mercy as to what device they will decide to support in the future.

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

This is a bit of an exception, as DRM is often used for vendor lock-ins. But for whatever reason(s), that does not seem to be the case with a lot of ebook retailers.

Then please show us how to read DRMed Kindle eBooks on a non-Amazon supported device.
Or how about DRMed Sony eBooks on a non-Sony device?
Or DRMed B&N eBooks on a non-B&N device?

DRM = lock-in and lack of choice for the consumer. Period.

[vaughnmr]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Ok peoples. When it comes to ebooks, DRM rarely locks you to a specific reading device.

Kali, this was the silliest statement you have ever made. Substitute "frequently" for "rarely" and you will be a lot closer to reality.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Ok peoples. When it comes to ebooks, DRM rarely locks you to a specific reading device.

For example, DRMed books purchased from B&N can be read on their proprietary device (the Nook). And on iPhones, iPod Touches, PC's, Macs and Blackberries. Amazon Kindle books are on the Kindle, iPhone, iPad, PC and Mac. It's reasonable that Android versions will also be available, and additional tablet OS's are practically a given. AFAIK the Adobe ebook DRM is also cross-platform.

There's also a ton of ways to get DRM-free public domain ebooks. B&N can slap whatever DRM they want onto a Charles Dickens book, that is extraordinarily unlikely to prevent readers from getting open versions.

This is a bit of an exception, as DRM is often used for vendor lock-ins. But for whatever reason(s), that does not seem to be the case with a lot of ebook retailers.

*IF* one is willing to 'take the next step' and gather the (in many areas illegal) DRM breaking tools, then yes, DRM rarely prevents one from using a purchased ebook on only one type of device.

On the other hand, if one sticks to 'the rules', one is so tied down with restrictions, gobbledigook and downright *HOSTILE* malware that it almost appears as if the publishers would rather that their clients not read at all!

Yes, I realize that one can 'authorize' multiple devices (especially true for Amazon), but that number is *FAR FEWER* than the number of reading devices I *personally* own! They are *my* devices, I should have no limits on which ones I may use to read my purchased ebooks!

Derek

[Lemurion]

DRM exists to make money for DRM providers; they use FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) as a marketing tool and sell DRM as the cure.

It's a moderately successful con game which makes DRM providers plenty of money.

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

However, putting DRM on content that is in the public domain does not magically re-apply copyright.

Nowhere did I claim that copyright is re-applied. I was discussing an ALTERNATE mechanism which prevents you from using copies distributed with DRM protection. I said that it is illegal to remove DRM protection EVEN from content that is in public domain, and that it IS not illegal for distributors to apply such a protection on public domain matériel that they sell (or give away).

It is not a COPYRIGHT, but your capability to use THAT copy is severely limited, would you agree?

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

While it may be illegal for me to invent a tool that cracks their DRM scheme, they cannot in any way, shape or form prevent me from redistributing that PD text.

That's interesting question. I guess it is legal to distribute encrypted version of "War and Peace" from Sony... but since protection can NOT be legally removed from THAT copy, that version is useless to anybody except yourself (who have a registered device, hence a key, to read it).

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by pholy

Ankh - Why are you worrying about the DMCA?

For the very same reason that Mobile Read does not want to deal with hosting of "Gone with the wind", a work of art which is in public domain in Canada. It is messy, and costly to deal with lawyers.

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Right. DRM always locks you in to a specific vendor. Which leaves you at the vendor's mercy as to what device they will decide to support in the future.

Sorry, that statement is simply not true. Many of us routinely remove DRM from ebooks as soon as we download an ebook.

Then please show us how to read DRMed Kindle eBooks on a non-Amazon supported device.

Google or private message are your friends.

DRM = lock-in and lack of choice for the consumer. Period.

That's very likely the publisher's intention, but 'It ain't necessarily so'.

Regards, Alex

[rleguillow]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Ok peoples. When it comes to ebooks, DRM rarely locks you to a specific reading device.

Delighted to hear that. So why then am I totally unable to read the 100+ ebooks I bought for my first ereader? They are in .rb format (which doesn't work on my Sony) and they have DRM - There are programs available for converting from .rb to something else, but not if there is DRM - and I have yet to see a DRM remover for those ebooks.

My first ereader was a Rocket. After they went out of business and the reader died, I purchased the nearly identical eBookwise version. It could read .rb format - but not those books, because they had DRM that it didn't accept.

Nope, Kali, can't say as I agree with your statement. It is only true insofar as the format is readable on the desired reading device, and the desired reading device has the capability of identifying you as a valid reader for that DRM.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

Sorry, that statement is simply not true. Many of us routinely remove DRM from ebooks as soon as we download an ebook.

And I will remind you that you are not the general public and that the instructions for removing the DRM are pretty much beyond the knowledge of most people.

I will also remind you that what works today may not work tomorrow. Amazon has complete control over the device and can change the DRM that they use at any time.

[Gunnerp245]

Originally Posted by rleguillow

It isn't to protect copyright - these books are out of copyright. It isn't to prevent piracy - what is the point? They are free.

Opinions?

It is all about the mighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Gunner...

[DawnFalcon]

It's about the War On Customers. You know, the one you can't win and can only hurt yourself during...

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by Ankh

It is not a COPYRIGHT, but your capability to use THAT copy is severely limited, would you agree?

Yes and no.

Yes, in that if I buy a DRMed copy of a Dickens book, I cannot legally break the DRM and redistribute that specific copy.

No, in that I can still take any portion of the book (excepting, say, an essay written recently and copyrighted) and do what I want with the actual text. Or I can get the same text from a multitude of methods.

E.g. I get A Tale of Two Cities for the Nook, and want to read it on another device. Even if I can't read that specific copy, or legally crack the DRM and move it, it is trivially easy to get a legal non-DRM protected copy of the text.

Thus there are almost no practical effects of the limitation.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Right. DRM always locks you in to a specific vendor. Which leaves you at the vendor's mercy as to what device they will decide to support in the future.

I do agree it locks that copy in to that specific vendor, but that's not what I contested. I pointed out that when it comes to ebooks, you are not particularly locked into a specific hardware platform. Ebooks happen to be far less restrictive than a lot of other content.

Compare this to a video game, for example. If you buy a game for a Nintendo DS, you are thoroughly locked into that vendor, that platform, and that hardware device.

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Then please show us how to read DRMed Kindle eBooks on a non-Amazon supported device. Or how about DRMed Sony eBooks on a non-Sony device? Or DRMed B&N eBooks on a non-B&N device?

Again, these vendors are supporting a variety of devices: smartphones, PCs, readers. You have a lot more options than with console games or DRMed movies, or iTunes DRM'ed music at its start, for example.

Further, if I have an iPhone for example, there is no problem with my purchasing one Kindle ebook, a B&N ebook, and reading public domain books via Stanza or any number of other apps. So at worst a specific title that I purchase may be locked to a specific vendor, but I certainly am not.

I concur things could be a bit more open, but the situations where your options are truly restricted are dwindling, as more and more platforms are supported.