Doctorow on the iPad

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by stustaff

Maybe I dont understand open source then, I believed that for a device to be truly open source the software(all of it) and hardware((i.e.schematics, bill of materials and PCB layout data) must be completely available for others to use in accordance with a licence tied to the device?

I think the point was that while you praise many of the devices you list as evidence that Open Source "stuff" is no good... yet you neglect to realize that many of those devices run on top of Open Source software. The PS3 for example. TiVo uses the Linux Kernal. OS X is built on top of FREE BSD and includes a lot of open source stuff in it like perl, python, ruby, apache, samba, etc. etc.

Open source software has been very good for the computer and home electronics industry. Oh, and many of those companies commit code back to those open source projects also.

BOb

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

Well, the lack of a necessary apostrophe in a word is a spelling and not a punctuation mistake. I let the punctuation slide; I could have pointed out your inability to use commas, but I was being nice.

I doubt you're submitting a doctorate paper. If you are, probably best to give up now and save yourself a lot of heartache.

I was, and will continue, posting because my opinion is as valid as yours (and better spelt and punctuated to boot ).

Continue on then, I appreciate your feedback on my spelling and punctuation.

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by stustaff

Continue on then, I appreciate your feedback on my spelling and punctuation.

No problem. If you need anything proof-reading, just let me know

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

No problem. If you need anything proof-reading, just let me know

I think you meant to say:

"No problem. If you need anything proof-read, just let me know. "


Now... can we stop the english lessons and personal diggs?

Moderator

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I think the point was that while you praise many of the devices you list as evidence that Open Source "stuff" is no good... yet you neglect to realize that many of those devices run on top of Open Source software. The PS3 for example. TiVo uses the Linux Kernal. OS X is built on top of FREE BSD and includes a lot of open source stuff in it like perl, python, ruby, apache, samba, etc. etc.

Open source software has been very good for the computer and home electronics industry. Oh, and many of those companies commit code back to those open source projects also.

BOb

Woah I never said open source stuff was no good! I said the opposite actually!
What I am saying is that from the general end user point of view closed is better more finished and easier to use(in general of course).

I use loads of open software XBMC, Open Office, Handbrake they are great and I couldnt get a better closed piece of software.

And the iPad isnt software its hardware hence why I talked about closed being better and listed numerous hardware examples! (I genuinelly cant think of an open source piece of hardware Except the Pandora console (openpandora.org) of which I was one of teh first 200 orderers and have been waiting nearly 3 years for! I bet none of you have any open source hardware

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I think you meant to say:

"No problem. If you need anything proof-read, just let me know. "


Now... can we stop the english lessons and personal diggs?

Moderator

yeh good shout I get carried away too, I dolove you all though and personally think its great that we all have different viewpoints. I get carried away sometimes but do value everyones input. except Bilbo1967's

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I think you meant to say:

"No problem. If you need anything proof-read, just let me know. "


Now... can we stop the english lessons and personal diggs?

Moderator

I think that either "proof-read" or "proof-reading" would be acceptable, actually, depending on the tense intended.

"diggs", however.....?

Point taken though - no more from me on that.

[dmaul1114]

I don't know that "closed is better" but I also don't care that much about the open vs. closed issue.

I care that a device does what I need and is simple and easy to use from the get go. I have little patience for learning curves, don't like having to tweak and customize things etc. Convenience is one of the most important factors in any purchase I make.

[slayda]

I remember, years ago there was the Amiga Computer, superior to the Apple and much superior to the PC. Where is it now? Big companies do drive the "creative competition" out of business eventually, unless they can manage to become a big company like Jobs & Gates did.

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by slayda

I remember, years ago there was the Amiga Computer, superior to the Apple and much superior to the PC. Where is it now? Big companies do drive the "creative competition" out of business eventually, unless they can manage to become a big company like Jobs & Gates did.

He he I HAD a 500 600 1200 and CD32!

Its one of teh reasons I am buying the pandora handheld it will do 100% speed amiga emulation.

yay opensource devices

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by stustaff

Maybe I dont understand open source then

No, it's evident you don't.

Open Source is about software licensing, hardware openness is related but not identical, and certainly not a prerequisite.

which of those devices is open or uses open software Id love to know which of those manufacturers licence the entire operating system under an open licence.

Erm, the Sony Readers, the Kindle and the Nook are all Linux-powered. Also, you mentioned Sony TV's: They're Linux-based. Routers, ADSL and cable modems, mobile phones, cable boxes, NAS, and TVR's and a host of other home devices are linux-powered. And that's just Linux, there's plenty of other open source software out there.

Netcraft says that Mobileread is running under Apache (open source) on Linux. The forum software Mobileread uses, PhpBB, is open source - and that works off the open lisence (although non-copyleft) php scripting system alongside the open source MySQL (or maybe Postgres SQL, same difference).

Also, Nintendo and Sony console development is utterly dependent on open-sourced tools, as are the vast majority of even closed-source projects today (I think you can figure out why that's not true for the 360, lol - and even then there are some handy open source tools and things like DVCS systems are all open source...).

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

No, it's evident you don't.

Open Source is about software licensing, hardware openness is related but not identical, and certainly not a prerequisite.



Erm, the Sony Readers, the Kindle and the Nook are all Linux-powered. Also, you mentioned Sony TV's: They're Linux-based. Routers, ADSL and cable modems, mobile phones, cable boxes, NAS, and TVR's and a host of other home devices are linux-powered. And that's just Linux, there's plenty of other open source software out there.

Netcraft says that Mobileread is running under Apache on Linux. The forum software Mobileread uses, PhpBB, is open source - and that works off the open lisence (although non-copyleft) php scripting system alongside the open source MySQL (or maybe Postgres SQL, same difference)

Also, Nintendo and Sony console development is utterly dependent on open-sourced tools, as are the vast majority of even closed-source projects today (I think you can figure out why that's not true for the 360, lol).

you keep saying based on linux but unless they release THEIR code that runs the device then it isnt open source software is it? but just based on open source which I Never mentioned!

eg I know OSX is based on open source but OSX isnt open source.

so which of those devices have open software running them?

[Logseman]

We must say something and have it quite clear: open source stifles innovation. The strength of open source projects lies on its userbase. OSo projects must adapt themselves to the current userbase they have, unlike copyrighted software which forces a much bigger turnover and replaceability since its idea is to profit on its patent which eventually wears off. I believe it's a good idea to compare an open-source oriented device like the Netronix ones, particularly the 600, with the Sony PRS-505 device. While the latter was discontinued and is sorely missed by many users who don't feel the newer model (the PRS-600) is quite as good, the Netronix model has been hanging around for four years, seemingly pleasing users as its dozens of rebrands around the world can give proof of, now the latest iteration being the Kobo device. While the PRS-505 outlived its usefulness for Sony and got replaced, the EB600 has lived longer precisely because it's useful.

The iPad is just as far away from the concept of Open Source as they make them. It has branded itself explicitly as an "enhancement" more than a stand-alone device. People buy it with the assumption and conviction that it will be dated in months when a new little thing is added to the carcass. It is not just consumption electronics: it's something in a deeper level.

[BooksForABuck]

When Microsoft stopped shipping Basic with DOS, I wondered what the world was coming to. How could they expect to sell PCs without a programming language? That, after all, was what had made the Apple II and the C-64 so fun. For better or worse, I was dead wrong. As Ralph Sir Edward points out, the tinkerer class is small compared to the consumer class. I don't think the iPad's success or failure hinges on whether it creates an easy environment for application creation for amateurs.

Rob Preece
Publisher, BooksForABuck.com

[DawnFalcon]

stustaff - Urm...

Darn skippy they comply with the requirements of the GPL. Because the GPL has won time and again in court against D-Link, Cisco, Skype and a host of other big names. The SLFC has been remarkably successful.

Some links? Okay!

OSX (And a bunch of other apple stuff)
Kindle
Sony (a load of devices)

Etc. etc.



Logseman - As it clearly states on Netronix's page, the EB-600 runs on Linux. Actually, Netronix appear to be in breach of their licence obligations, thanks for bringing this to light, I'll pass it on to the usual parties.

You may wish to check your facts better next time.