Downloaded books cost how much? - Page 5

Jack B Nimble · 08-01-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgnbear

I have no trouble paying for a book. Put a CD in the back with the eBook and charge me a few dollars more. I would GLADLY pay more to have both a physical and electronic copy of books. As consumers we have to demand eBook versions from publishers. Politely write a letter to the publishers of your favorite books explaining how much easier an eBook is and how you would be willing to pay more to see it bundled with the hardback. Unless they can see a market to make increased profits it will never happen.

As for DRM. I don't like it but the truth is it's here to stay. Pretty much buck up or don't pay for it. What needs to happen is an open format that can be read on any device, then it won't matter unless you are attempting to pirate material. If that's the case I have no sympathy.

Again, Baen just seems to be on the ball for this. I have seen several of their books with CDs in the back, including that book (and occasionally, related books from the same author) in a variety of DRM-free formats. Sadly, they do not publish much that I read, but my buddy loves it. He has quite a library, just from Baen.

JSWolf · 08-01-2007, 10:14 PM

There was a Star Trek New Frontier Hardcover that had a CD attached to the first printing that had all the previous stories in PDF with no DRM.

drgnbear · 08-02-2007, 01:56 AM

Exactly and Baen gets my money. Even if I don't find the book attractive if it comes with electronic versions attached I buy it. Well... within reason. I love Sci-Fi and Fantasy so... I don't really know if it's being done outside of that Genre. My biggest beef with the Sony store is their Sci-Fi and Fantasy stuff reeks.

JSWolf · 08-02-2007, 02:19 AM

Well, I just bought a book a collection of an author's first three books in a series (in one book) for $9.95. Pretty good price I'd have to say. Brings it to $3.32 per book.

jasonkchapman · 08-02-2007, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

No longer needed. Peer networks do a much better job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Unnecessary today. The internet and word of mouth does a much better job.

No they don't. Every peer network devolves in short order into factionalized fan clubs that yield very little useful information. What valuable information is there ends up requiring way too much effort from the user to glean. The longer any community exists, the more it comes to resemble Slashdot. They become populated with personalities that treat their own preferences as "The One True Way" and spit on any other opinion with religious zeal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Posting the first chapter of the book for free, for example, does a much better job of promotion - and costs almost nothing.

Also not true. Some obscure Web site in a remote corner of the digiverse is not going to get noticed. Getting it noticed requires one heck of a lot of time and effort. You either hire astroturfers, or you spend more time promoting than writing. Since that costs either time or money, it will show up in the bottom line of the ebook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Value to the author only. Not an excuse to make eBooks cost more.

You keep making that distinction, but it's meaningless. If something is of value to the "manufacturer," said "manufacturer" is going to pass it on to the consumer. Safety goggles in an auto factory are only of value to the employees. So are salaries. So are health care benefits. Those things still show up in the bottom line.

HarryT · 08-02-2007, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Release the eBook in an open format and let the readers convert as needed.

Lauzon,

One has only to read these forums to see how many dishonest people there are around, who have no qualms about reading illegally-downloaded versions of "Harry Potter", for example. It is clear that DRM is critically important - without DRM these dishonest people will carry on illegally downloading books rather than buying them. Book publishers exist for one reason, and one reason alone - to make a profit; they are not charities. No DRM means no profit and hence no books.

Open formats are worthless - DRM is the only way to go if you want to see more commercially-published eBooks. I am astonished that you fail to see this self-evident truth! Long live DRM!

Steven Lyle Jordan · 08-02-2007, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgnbear

As consumers we have to demand eBook versions from publishers. Politely write a letter to the publishers of your favorite books explaining how much easier an eBook is and how you would be willing to pay more to see it bundled with the hardback. Unless they can see a market to make increased profits it will never happen.

I think a lot of publishers who are thinking actively about e-books (and most of them are) are biding their own time until they are ready. If we contact them, demonstrating that there is a market right now, maybe they will speed up the process. And if we phrase our requests properly, it might help them decide on issues like formats, DRM, price, etc, that they may be on the fence about right now.

Maybe some thought should be given to a script that could be used by consumers to send to publishers, hitting on our desired points so as to make clear to them what we want and how we want it. Some unity from us would be a help to them to make the final decisions.

rlauzon · 08-02-2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWood

By that logic Steve Jordan should be one of the most successful writers out there today.

Marketing and advertising does not make a "OK" book "great."

rlauzon · 08-02-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

One has only to read these forums to see how many dishonest people there are around, who have no qualms about reading illegally-downloaded versions of "Harry Potter", for example.

You obviously haven't read these forums. Those people also purchased the book and the only reason they downloaded the illegal eBook was so they could read it as an eBook. An eBook that was not offered at all through any legal channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

It is clear that DRM is critically important

Fact: DRM doesn't work. All DRM has been cracked.

DRM exists for only 1 purpose: to lock a user into a certain company. It does not, cannot, protect the content.

DRM is a failure. To think it's "critically important" is to ignore the facts and think that customers are morons.

JSWolf · 08-02-2007, 01:34 PM

Give me URLs to prove that ever ebook DRM has been cracked.

HarryT · 08-02-2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

You obviously haven't read these forums. Those people also purchased the book and the only reason they downloaded the illegal eBook was so they could read it as an eBook. An eBook that was not offered at all through any legal channel.

Completely irrelevent. It's still illegal, and anyone who downloads it is breaking the law. How can you possibly know that everyone who downloaded it has also purchased the book?

Quote:

Fact: DRM doesn't work. All DRM has been cracked.

DRM exists for only 1 purpose: to lock a user into a certain company. It does not, cannot, protect the content.

DRM is a failure. To think it's "critically important" is to ignore the facts and think that customers are morons.

Of course DRM protects content - that's what it's for. You are entirely incorrect in saying that all DRM has been cracked - can you give me a link to a crack for Mobipocket DRM, for example? For about Adobe's DRM? No? I thought not.

JSWolf · 08-02-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Completely irrelevent. It's still illegal, and anyone who downloads it is breaking the law. How can you possibly know that everyone who downloaded it has also purchased the book?

Of course DRM protects content - that's what it's for. You are entirely incorrect in saying that all DRM has been cracked - can you give me a link to a crack for Mobipocket DRM, for example? For about Adobe's DRM? No? I thought not.

Adobe's DRM has been broken somehow. I saw a file on the net that was from an original PDF DRM copy and the DRM was broken. But I have never seen eReader or MobiPocket DRM broken.

silkpag · 08-02-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Adobe's DRM has been broken somehow. I saw a file on the net that was from an original PDF DRM copy and the DRM was broken. But I have never seen eReader or MobiPocket DRM broken.

pdbshred did both for a while--eventually, on Mobi, you got a great message if you tried it on .prc files. They had a sense of humor about the whole thing.

Only thing hindering development of Mobi/E-Reader DRM cracking, one suspects, is that currently everything published in those two formats is also available in MS-Reader.

Disclaimer: I was only using the program on my own secure Mobi digital files, from an especially-NSFW-during-summer imprint.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 08-02-2007, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Marketing and advertising does not make a "OK" book "great."

(Ooh! Yuh got me!)

Maybe not, but marketing and advertising will put an "OK" book ghost-written for Dr. Phil on the NYT bestseller list.

rlauzon · 08-02-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Give me URLs to prove that ever ebook DRM has been cracked.

On Slashdot today:
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/01/2218256

OOps. Sorry, that was audio and video, not eBooks. But the quote:
"When you look at the technology, there's no getting around the fact that DRM is an abject failure."
applies to eBooks. I would argue that eBooks aren't in high enough demand to merit the same attention from the people who enjoy crasking DRM.

08-02-2007, 01:56 AM	#63
drgnbear Evil alien overlord. Posts: 57 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2007 Device: Kindle	Exactly and Baen gets my money. Even if I don't find the book attractive if it comes with electronic versions attached I buy it. Well... within reason. I love Sci-Fi and Fantasy so... I don't really know if it's being done outside of that Genre. My biggest beef with the Sony store is their Sci-Fi and Fantasy stuff reeks. Last edited by drgnbear; 08-02-2007 at 02:13 AM.

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08-01-2007, 10:14 PM	#62
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 80,782 Karma: 150249619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	There was a Star Trek New Frontier Hardcover that had a CD attached to the first printing that had all the previous stories in PDF with no DRM.

08-02-2007, 02:19 AM	#64
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 80,782 Karma: 150249619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Well, I just bought a book a collection of an author's first three books in a series (in one book) for $9.95. Pretty good price I'd have to say. Brings it to $3.32 per book.

08-02-2007, 01:34 PM	#70
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 80,782 Karma: 150249619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Give me URLs to prove that ever ebook DRM has been cracked.