My journey into the darknet

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

We're agreeing now.

You aren't Kenny in disguise by any chance?

Hey!

Stop That!

[sabredog]

So, a rough heuristic for determining naughtiness of downloading a particular item might be n= (br - tr) x ap where "n" is naughtiness, "br" is book ratio, or the degree to which a object accrues its value in virtue of its book aspect (on a scale yet to be specified), "tr" is tome ratio or the degree to which a object accrues its value in virtue of its tome aspect (on a scale yet to be specified) and "ap" is asking price for the item. There now - we can all work out just how naughty we have been, and more importantly, how naughty we would be if we were to nab that missing seventh volume in the series that we just can't get anywhere else.

There needs to be another variable added

n = (br - tr)ap - g

where g is geographic restriction annoyance factor, g = publisher of said tome annoyance factor/attempts to circumvent pt/c

[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Make gold, fight demons, conquer the astral planes, control deities for fun and profit, that kind of thing. Theoretically. (I have yet to meet an insanely wealthy or politically powerful owner of the Azoetia, so I rather doubt some of its implied claims.) It claims to contain mystical secrets of great power, and all that, so yes, the value is in the text.

Ok, now my reason for going to the darknet is to find this book.

Cheers,
PKFFW

[Mr. Dalliard]

As is the case in all areas where media providers cling to antiquated and broken business-models: the 'darknet' will fill the void until they wake up.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

DO NOT TRY TO CONFUSE ME WITH YOUR MATHS. I WILL CONTINUE TO CALCULATE EBOOK NAUGHTINESS BY HOW MANY TIMES KENNYC SAYS THE WORD "THEFT" IN A THREAD WHERE IT'S MENTIONED.

And this is probably as good (or not) as any other method!

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by TGS

The same I suspect will be true of electronically distributed books. Once the publishers develop a business model that focuses on those who are willing to buy and the fuss about those who are willing to get the stuff from elsewhere dies down, publishers will start making money off it.

In the retail industry they call it wastage, (well, it's not even that in the case of electronic goods), they put a security guard on the door and a tag on anything worth over fifty quid. It reduces it a bit but no retailer has a serious strategy to achieve zero wastage. It's just not that important - apart from to those who think it signals the end of civilization as we know it - but retailers have got better things to do, selling stuff to people who want to buy it.

Let's take it a step farther, for some reason they think they can get zero shrinkage so they add those people at the exit who want to check the contents of your shopping bag vs your receipt let's call it DRM. Seconds after the purchase they accuse their customers of being thieves and delay their enjoyment of whatever they just bought. Maybe some people don't mind, maybe some people go elsewhere, maybe some people strip the drm and walk right past the bag checker ignoring demands to see into the bag and get followed in the parking lot (happened to me once, can you imagine letting all the other people leave without having their belonging searched just to follow me and still not be allowed to search my belongings?

Now I don't think infringement will ever go away especially considering some publishers don't believe in fair use but any industry that treats it customers like criminals isn't going to win loyalty from the masses.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

You aren't Kenny in disguise by any chance?

Not by an stretch of the imagination!

[astra]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Well... PDFs... There's your problem right there! Even taking a decent PDF file and extracting using Adobe Acrobat Pro 9.0, I notice that sometimes I get really CRAPPY html, doc and rtf files. On those I find that the only way to create a decent ebook is to extract to txt and run it through my word processor (in my case that would be Atlantis) to create a .doc version with all the spell-checking done and layout improved. Then I run an .html version of that through Calibre and generate the ePub and Mobi versions. It *is* a hassle.

Derek

Besides hassle you loose all the necessary formatting, such as italics and bold. In Harry Potter books it is very important to keep them.

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by TGS

Not by an stretch of the imagination!

My imagination will stretch pretty far. Isn't that what you would say? "TGS? Oh!" is an anagram of "Ghost" - coincidence?

[Format C:]

Digital is Evil.

Look:

- Mr. A buys a book, read it once, and, knowing that he won't ever re-read it, he sells it on ebay.
-> Good.

- Mr. B buys a DRM free e-book, read it once, and, knowing that he won't ever re-read it, he sells it on ebay.
-> Evil.

- Mr. A borrows a book from his friend. And since nor he, nor his friend won't ever re-read it, he gives it to another friend.
-> Good.

- Mr. B borrows a DRM free e-book from his friend. And since nor he, nor his friend won't ever re-read it, he gives it to another friend through the Net.
-> Evil.

- Mr. A buys a book, strips the cover, makes xerox enlargements, throws the originals away, reads the copies and stores them.
-> Good.

- Mr. B buys an e-book, strips the DRM, makes a PDF with a large font, deletes the original, reads the copy on his Kindle DX and stores it.
-> Evil.

- Mr. A buys a book and reads it aloud for his wife.
-> Good.

- Mr. B buys an e-book, strips DRM and circumvent protections to make his Kindle read it aloud for his wife.
-> Evil.

- Mr. A buys a book, reads it and then liberate it leaving it on a bench for whoever will take it.
-> Good.

- Mr. B buys an ebook, reads it and then liberate it leaving it on a web page with a "download once and delete from server" constraint for whoever will take it.
-> Evil.


There is only on explanation: the evil is in the digital format itself, not in the behaviour of the user.

[alecE]

I'm not too sure about the great moral generalities, but let me pose a specific instance for further commentary.

I possess a penguin paperback (Roy Lewis, 'The Evolution Man') published 1963 for which I paid 2/6d (old money = 12.5p new money). It's a very great favourite of mine, but the paper is going brown and it will fall apart one day and I would dearly love an electronic version. I have a number of choices:
1. Find a legitimate e-copy - so far I've failed;
2. Buy a new paper copy (£6.99 at Amazon) scan it and proof it;
3. Scan and proof my existing copy;
4. Find a copy on the darknet (so far I haven't, but I've not looked very hard);
5. Go without.

What are the morality 'ratings' of the above, and the reasons for the 'ratings'?

I'm wondering if the consideration of specific cases might help to clarify the general morality?

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by alecE

I'm not too sure about the great moral generalities, but let me pose a specific instance for further commentary.

I possess a penguin paperback (Roy Lewis, 'The Evolution Man') published 1963 for which I paid 2/6d (old money = 12.5p new money). It's a very great favourite of mine, but the paper is going brown and it will fall apart one day and I would dearly love an electronic version. I have a number of choices:
1. Find a legitimate e-copy - so far I've failed;
2. Buy a new paper copy (£6.99 at Amazon) scan it and proof it;
3. Scan and proof my existing copy;
4. Find a copy on the darknet (so far I haven't, but I've not looked very hard);
5. Go without.

What are the morality 'ratings' of the above, and the reasons for the 'ratings'?

I'm wondering if the consideration of specific cases might help to clarify the general morality?

There is no single morality. The poll that I ran a few weeks ago showed a slim majority approving the idea that it was OK to obtain a copy of something which you have previously purchased. So most people, I would imagine, would approve of any of the choices you list, although a sizeable minority would not approve of 4.

Originally Posted by alecE

I'm not too sure about the great moral generalities, but let me pose a specific instance for further commentary.

I possess a penguin paperback (Roy Lewis, 'The Evolution Man') published 1963 for which I paid 2/6d (old money = 12.5p new money). It's a very great favourite of mine, but the paper is going brown and it will fall apart one day and I would dearly love an electronic version. I have a number of choices:
1. Find a legitimate e-copy - so far I've failed;
2. Buy a new paper copy (£6.99 at Amazon) scan it and proof it;
3. Scan and proof my existing copy;
4. Find a copy on the darknet (so far I haven't, but I've not looked very hard);
5. Go without.

What are the morality 'ratings' of the above, and the reasons for the 'ratings'?

I'm wondering if the consideration of specific cases might help to clarify the general morality?

!. Find it, buy it, download it. No moral issues at all.

2.& 3. Basically the same to me. I personally see no moral issue as long as the the resulting e-copy is for my use alone; i.e. I don't then share it with people I know or people I don't know (darknet).

4. Morally questionable. In my opinion dead wrong if a legitimate e-copy is out there WHAT EVER THE PRICE. That a legitimate seller of any item wants more than you want to pay, or can afford to pay, does not justify getting a stolen item. If the e-copy is just not otherwise available, hmm?

5.That's always an alternative with no moral issue.

[pendragginp]

Well, I'm torn on this subject, but I'm also surprised at the mention of free books. There is one childhood favorite I've not been able to find except at the torrents, but every torrent I've seen charges for a subscription. Are they not 'legitimate' darknet?

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by alecE

I'm not too sure about the great moral generalities, but let me pose a specific instance for further commentary.

I possess a penguin paperback (Roy Lewis, 'The Evolution Man') published 1963 for which I paid 2/6d (old money = 12.5p new money). It's a very great favourite of mine, but the paper is going brown and it will fall apart one day and I would dearly love an electronic version. I have a number of choices:
1. Find a legitimate e-copy - so far I've failed;
2. Buy a new paper copy (£6.99 at Amazon) scan it and proof it;
3. Scan and proof my existing copy;
4. Find a copy on the darknet (so far I haven't, but I've not looked very hard);
5. Go without.

What are the morality 'ratings' of the above, and the reasons for the 'ratings'?

I'm wondering if the consideration of specific cases might help to clarify the general morality?

In my often disagreed with opinion all are acceptable and moral, when somebody decided to put drm on ebooks they changed the game, instead of buying a book you buy a license to the content. Your dead tree copy thus gives you a license it just happened to come with paper media that you own. If your windows cd is destroyed by say a rampaging child you're not forced to remove windows from your computer you still have a license, if your paper book is destroyed then again you still have a license, if publishers don't like this they should have thought twice about use of DRM and just sold you a whatever it is that digital goods come as, a bucket full of 1's and 0's I dunno. Your paper book gives you perpetual license to the content.