iPad, Kindle, & changes

HorridRedDog · 03-06-2010, 09:46 AM

On another thread "New Survey Shows Huge Wave of Apple iPad Demand Striking Amazon", but on a different note....

IF there is a a huge demand for the iPad, and IF many of those want to use it as an e-reader then you might see Amazon offering a selection of e-book formats.

Whether you like or dislike the iPad it may bring some good changes.

deltop · 03-06-2010, 09:53 AM

I don't see why they'd offer more formats. People will just use the Kindle app on the iPad, which is already in development.

HorridRedDog · 03-06-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltop

I don't see why they'd offer more formats. People will just use the Kindle app on the iPad, which is already in development.

True, but when you add up ALL of the different e-readers in use Amazon will have to decide if the Kindle format is the ONLY format that they should use. After all they do want to stay in business.

My bet is that they will do what Sony did, just switch to epub. And I bet someone will create a program to run on the iPad for that format. Unless Apple actively works to prevent it.

rcuadro · 03-06-2010, 10:05 AM

Nope, I am pretty sure that Amazon will maintain the mobi format...

cavi · 03-07-2010, 08:28 PM

However I personally like buying kindle format and converting it to use on my Sony Reader. I find amazon easier to deal with than the sony store, and that way I have the book on my e-book and my iphone if I want.

SpiderMatt · 03-07-2010, 08:50 PM

Yeah, there's an advantage in Amazon owning its own format and DRM scheme. I'm sure it saves them money by not having to work through a third party. Maybe they could apply their current DRM scheme to ePub? Amazon probably wouldn't consider it worthwhile, though.

Bremen Cole · 03-07-2010, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiderMatt

Yeah, there's an advantage in Amazon owning its own format and DRM scheme. I'm sure it saves them money by not having to work through a third party. Maybe they could apply their current DRM scheme to ePub? Amazon probably wouldn't consider it worthwhile, though.

True, but someday they will have to open up.... Sony figured that out and went to ePub rather than their proprietary lrf.... took them years to do it, but they finally did. If Amazon is using the same closed scheme they are now in 5 years, it would surprise me....

HorridRedDog · 03-07-2010, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavi

However I personally like buying kindle format and converting it to use on my Sony Reader. I find amazon easier to deal with than the sony store, and that way I have the book on my e-book and my iphone if I want.

I don't think that most people will bother to do that though.

I believe that DRM is required many of the publishers, and some writers. If Amazon is in favor of it or not isn't too important at this point. It can be gotten around.

If Amazon sticks with only the Kindle DRM format they arn't really locking in sales. What they are doing is locking out most of the average e-book customers.

I can now scan in & convert library books to e-books, whoopty do. I could buy ebooks from Amazon, strip the DRM, & convert to epub. I could search the net and get the latest books free.

But if I can buy it, I do (my personal preference is to buy non-DRM books, but that's a different topic).

I believe (but can't find it) that the most popular e-book catagories are romance/fantasy books. And I don't think that a 14 year old girl reading a supernatural romance novel cares about DRM.

Back to the point. There are a lot of other e-readers out there. Does Amazon ignore the potential sales?

Nakor · 03-07-2010, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HorridRedDog

I believe (but can't find it) that the most popular e-book catagories are romance/fantasy books.

That wouldn't surprise me much. Romance would be up there because of the sheer quantity of books that come and go in that genre. Used book sales are always chock full of them. It stands to reason that romance readers would love a way to not have overcrowded shelves.

And f/sf readers, like myself, are of course geeks, and generally the first group to jump on any new technological wonder.

Alisa · 03-07-2010, 11:09 PM

I don't see switching to ePub providing any additional ease for iPad customers than their Kindle app provides unless they dump DRM which I doubt the publishers will allow any time soon. After all, Apple is going to use it's own DRM for its ePub. I suppose there will be an Adept reader for iPad but we don't know how easy they'll make it to sideload your own files. If, like most people, you care about convenience more than open formats, the Kindle app is just as easy. But the Kindle app still has a major disadvantage against the built in iPad ebook app in that you can't buy books directly from it. You have to use the browser. Amazon could enable ebook buying directly from the app, but they'd have to give Apple a 30% cut so there's not much point. I don't see offering ePub helping with any of that.

I would like to see Amazon offering ePub, though. It would help them pick up quite a few other customers even if it didn't make much impact with iPad users.

Boston · 03-07-2010, 11:28 PM

Not sure I buy the arguments here -

- Sony was in the business of selling eReaders more so then books. Their store was never competitive so the move to ePub to sell more readers makes a lot of sense.

- Keep in mind there is more than one DRM scheme being used with ePub

- Not sure if Amazon is locking out the average ebook reader, at least in the US. I don't see mr readers as being the average consumer -and- I see a lot more Kindles than I do any other ebook reader (I take public transportation daily. I've seen many Kindles, only an occasional Sony and not much of anything else).

And if the publishers take away Amazon's ability to compete on ebook pricing, I see their next move is to deeply discount the Kindle (take a loss there) and keeping their own drm format to lock people into buying from their store.

(What I want Amazon to do is another thing)

asjogren · 03-07-2010, 11:38 PM

Just like music, DRM will die for eBooks. We don't know when. For me, there are more important issues than DRM.

Amazon has created a super easy product and service to browse, buy, download, and start reading a book NOW. For me, this would be FANTASTIC if Amazon had a eBook rental service. I don't buy many new books or eBooks. My first stop is my Public Library. I would rent eBooks if the library did not have it or there was a sizable wait list. For rental, I don't care about format or DRM.

In the meantime, I want my Kindle to support Public Library eBooks from Overdrive.com. Yes, I can do this all myself with scripts and format conversion. If the Kindle could handle ALL the Overdrive eBooks with no or minimal fuss - I would recommend it to everyone that has an interest in eBooks. Now, it is the rare individual to whom I recommend the Kindle.

Amazon could get MORE of my money with a eBook rental service.

If Amazon, or a third party, adds Adobe Digital Editions support AND ePub plus PDF, I would likely stay with Kindle and buy more for family members. If not, I will probably buy another competing eReader product.

The first "reasonable" eReader device that works with all the Overdrive eBooks will get me as a customer. Add eBook rental - like Netflix and BlockBuster - then everyone involved makes MORE money from me.

I like Amazon, but my use cases are not well supported by their current offerings.

I don't care if a eBook vendor sells only a specific format. I would not buy more eBooks from Amazon if they offered ePub as an option. I would not buy more eBooks from Amazon if they removed DRM. I will stay with Kindle IF they either add eBook rental or add support for all of the Public Library Overdrive eBooks. Otherwise.....

HorridRedDog · 03-08-2010, 01:09 PM

[QUOTE=Boston;820311]Not sure I buy the arguments here -

....- Not sure if Amazon is locking out the average ebook reader, at least in the US. I don't see mr readers as being the average consumer -....[/I]QUOTE]

The Kindle isn't locking out, or locking in, the average reader - you can get books that will read on the Kindle from other sources.

What Amazon is doing is (defacto) refusing to sell to any other e-readers. Not the best business model.

If you hang around mobileread very much YOU are not the "average consumer". Do you think that mobileread has the majority of the e-book consumers in its membership? I still get excited people looking at my Sony 600.

[QUOTE=Boston;820311]
And if the publishers take away Amazon's ability to compete on ebook pricing, I see their next move is to deeply discount the Kindle[/U] (take a loss there)[I] and keeping their own drm format to lock people into buying from their store.
QUOTE]

The Kindle will come down in price of course, but I don't think that we'll ever know for certain why. I remember seeing the first VHS player/recorder in a store window. The price? $3,000. Which is more complex - the DVD player/recorder or the Kindle? Not that e-readers will ever be as commonplace as the DVD player.

Now there's a good comparison of why DRM will die to one degree or another. Imagine if DVDs could only be played on one brand DVD player, but not a different brand. Imagine if your movies couldn't be played on a replacement DVD player from a different company.

The iPad is just one more nail in the restricted e-book coffin.

thename · 03-08-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HorridRedDog

What Amazon is doing is (defacto) refusing to sell to any other e-readers. Not the best business model.

Yep. Now we all should be wondering who will introduce a non-DRM, open-format store and give away a shirt like this:

Nakor · 03-08-2010, 07:10 PM

Lol, nice. But keep in mind that DRM is still up to the publishers. That's why even stores that try to offer it can only do so on some titles.

03-06-2010, 09:46 AM	#1
HorridRedDog Addict Posts: 322 Karma: 1592 Join Date: Nov 2009 Device: PRS-600 EB-1150	iPad, Kindle, & changes On another thread "New Survey Shows Huge Wave of Apple iPad Demand Striking Amazon", but on a different note.... IF there is a a huge demand for the iPad, and IF many of those want to use it as an e-reader then you might see Amazon offering a selection of e-book formats. Whether you like or dislike the iPad it may bring some good changes.

03-07-2010, 11:09 PM	#10
Alisa Gadget Geek Posts: 2,324 Karma: 22221 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Paperwhite, Kindle 3 (retired), Skindle 1.2 (retired)	I don't see switching to ePub providing any additional ease for iPad customers than their Kindle app provides unless they dump DRM which I doubt the publishers will allow any time soon. After all, Apple is going to use it's own DRM for its ePub. I suppose there will be an Adept reader for iPad but we don't know how easy they'll make it to sideload your own files. If, like most people, you care about convenience more than open formats, the Kindle app is just as easy. But the Kindle app still has a major disadvantage against the built in iPad ebook app in that you can't buy books directly from it. You have to use the browser. Amazon could enable ebook buying directly from the app, but they'd have to give Apple a 30% cut so there's not much point. I don't see offering ePub helping with any of that. I would like to see Amazon offering ePub, though. It would help them pick up quite a few other customers even if it didn't make much impact with iPad users. Last edited by Alisa; 03-08-2010 at 07:23 PM.

03-07-2010, 11:28 PM	#11
Boston Fanatic Posts: 555 Karma: 40032 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Boston :) Device: Kindle, Kobo Aura H20, Pixel XL	Not sure I buy the arguments here - - Sony was in the business of selling eReaders more so then books. Their store was never competitive so the move to ePub to sell more readers makes a lot of sense. - Keep in mind there is more than one DRM scheme being used with ePub - Not sure if Amazon is locking out the average ebook reader, at least in the US. I don't see mr readers as being the average consumer -and- I see a lot more Kindles than I do any other ebook reader (I take public transportation daily. I've seen many Kindles, only an occasional Sony and not much of anything else). And if the publishers take away Amazon's ability to compete on ebook pricing, I see their next move is to deeply discount the Kindle (take a loss there) and keeping their own drm format to lock people into buying from their store. (What I want Amazon to do is another thing) Last edited by Boston; 03-07-2010 at 11:31 PM.

03-08-2010, 01:09 PM	#13
HorridRedDog Addict Posts: 322 Karma: 1592 Join Date: Nov 2009 Device: PRS-600 EB-1150	[QUOTE=Boston;820311]Not sure I buy the arguments here - ....- Not sure if Amazon is locking out the average ebook reader, at least in the US. I don't see mr readers as being the average consumer -....[/I]QUOTE] The Kindle isn't locking out, or locking in, the average reader - you can get books that will read on the Kindle from other sources. What Amazon is doing is (defacto) refusing to sell to any other e-readers. Not the best business model. If you hang around mobileread very much YOU are not the "average consumer". Do you think that mobileread has the majority of the e-book consumers in its membership? I still get excited people looking at my Sony 600. [QUOTE=Boston;820311] And if the publishers take away Amazon's ability to compete on ebook pricing, I see their next move is to deeply discount the Kindle[/U] (take a loss there)[I] and keeping their own drm format to lock people into buying from their store. QUOTE] The Kindle will come down in price of course, but I don't think that we'll ever know for certain why. I remember seeing the first VHS player/recorder in a store window. The price? $3,000. Which is more complex - the DVD player/recorder or the Kindle? Not that e-readers will ever be as commonplace as the DVD player. Now there's a good comparison of why DRM will die to one degree or another. Imagine if DVDs could only be played on one brand DVD player, but not a different brand. Imagine if your movies couldn't be played on a replacement DVD player from a different company. The iPad is just one more nail in the restricted e-book coffin. Last edited by HorridRedDog; 03-08-2010 at 01:13 PM.

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03-06-2010, 09:53 AM	#2
deltop Zealot Posts: 136 Karma: 244 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Kobo Glo	I don't see why they'd offer more formats. People will just use the Kindle app on the iPad, which is already in development.

03-06-2010, 10:05 AM	#4
rcuadro Wizard Posts: 1,686 Karma: 874275 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Device: Kindle DX	Nope, I am pretty sure that Amazon will maintain the mobi format...

03-07-2010, 08:28 PM	#5
cavi Connoisseur Posts: 84 Karma: 580 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: prs600	However I personally like buying kindle format and converting it to use on my Sony Reader. I find amazon easier to deal with than the sony store, and that way I have the book on my e-book and my iphone if I want.

03-07-2010, 08:50 PM	#6
SpiderMatt Grand Arbiter Posts: 447 Karma: 1574837 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Arizona Device: iPod Touch, Amazon Kindle, Motorola Droid	Yeah, there's an advantage in Amazon owning its own format and DRM scheme. I'm sure it saves them money by not having to work through a third party. Maybe they could apply their current DRM scheme to ePub? Amazon probably wouldn't consider it worthwhile, though.

03-07-2010, 11:38 PM	#12
asjogren Addict Posts: 266 Karma: 1378 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Seattle / San Carlos, Sonora, Mexico Device: Kindle & WiFi Nook & PocketBook IQ	Just like music, DRM will die for eBooks. We don't know when. For me, there are more important issues than DRM. Amazon has created a super easy product and service to browse, buy, download, and start reading a book NOW. For me, this would be FANTASTIC if Amazon had a eBook rental service. I don't buy many new books or eBooks. My first stop is my Public Library. I would rent eBooks if the library did not have it or there was a sizable wait list. For rental, I don't care about format or DRM. In the meantime, I want my Kindle to support Public Library eBooks from Overdrive.com. Yes, I can do this all myself with scripts and format conversion. If the Kindle could handle ALL the Overdrive eBooks with no or minimal fuss - I would recommend it to everyone that has an interest in eBooks. Now, it is the rare individual to whom I recommend the Kindle. Amazon could get MORE of my money with a eBook rental service. If Amazon, or a third party, adds Adobe Digital Editions support AND ePub plus PDF, I would likely stay with Kindle and buy more for family members. If not, I will probably buy another competing eReader product. The first "reasonable" eReader device that works with all the Overdrive eBooks will get me as a customer. Add eBook rental - like Netflix and BlockBuster - then everyone involved makes MORE money from me. I like Amazon, but my use cases are not well supported by their current offerings. I don't care if a eBook vendor sells only a specific format. I would not buy more eBooks from Amazon if they offered ePub as an option. I would not buy more eBooks from Amazon if they removed DRM. I will stay with Kindle IF they either add eBook rental or add support for all of the Public Library Overdrive eBooks. Otherwise.....

03-08-2010, 07:10 PM	#15
Nakor Addict Posts: 214 Karma: 511602 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: BC, Canada Device: Aluratek Libre	Lol, nice. But keep in mind that DRM is still up to the publishers. That's why even stores that try to offer it can only do so on some titles.