More Freebies! - Page 2

derekweb · 07-22-2004, 05:11 PM

Bob, no worries on the "enthusiasm".

I can see your point on the issue of using a persons' credit card information as part of the DRM scheme. I've just finished checking the eReader application itself (loaded with 3 books), and I can't find any trace of my credit card (mind you, I haven't cracked open the databases themselves either, but I'm not a hex-hack). Which is good.

The point that I would raise up beside yours, not against, would be a concern of eReader.com storing my credit card info in any way, shape or form, since I myself do not trust most online company's ability to protect my personal data from outside hacks or intrusion. The information that is inside the book itself on my palm pilot I'm not nearly as worried about (yet).

But anyway, thank you for your response and clarification. It's appreciated.

cbarnett · 07-22-2004, 07:23 PM

I'm not sure about it, but I don't think the CC number would be stored in the book file as such. The first time you open the book, you have to enter your name and CC number, which I imagine would then go through some complex algorithm against a _checksum_ of some sort embedded in the book. If they match, bingo, you can access the book. No one should be able to determine your private details from the book file or software on your PDA.

As for what ereader.com do with your CC and other personal details, we have to trust them to store them securely and not pass anything on (like any other company we purchase from) I guess.

I am firmly opposed to DRM of any sort, but find ereader.com's to be less intrusive than Microsoft or Mobipocket, for example (you can use the book any any system that has a reader for it, for example, as opposed to Mobipocket which is keyed to one particular PDA or PC... which is a shame as I prefer Mobipocket to Ereader as a reader (and have both registered

)

Craig.

Bob Russell · 07-22-2004, 10:50 PM

Craig, You are much more clever than me!

Maybe I was just caught so off-guard by the whole thing I wasn't thinking clearly. It seems to be just as you surmised, and eReader is most likely fine and dandy. If all turns out as expected, they have me back as a happy (but red-faced) customer.

I received a response quickly to my email with concerns about the privacy issue, from no less than the Director of Operations. Surely he has little free time to be dealing with individual customers, so that's pretty outstanding of him to care that much about my concerns. That's one thumbs up already for eReader.com based on care of customers. Second thumbs up I'll confirm tomorrow, but there seems to be no privacy issue despite my great fears. I will be discussing the matter with him tomorrow over the phone, and he has already indicated that they use some kind of hash algorithm, and that the hash value is all that gets stored with the ebook. I do have a few more questions, but it looks very good, and most likely I'm going to have to humble myself and post a retraction of all the bad thoughts I shared about eReader!

Despite the ugliness of DRM in general, I have to count myself a fan of any company that sells and supports ebooks in a fair and positive manner. And I agree that it seems to be a good compromise in terms of usability vs DRM control.

sUnShInE · 07-23-2004, 09:02 AM

Proof that good customer service goes a long way.

Bob Russell · 07-28-2004, 10:37 PM

After a discussion with eReader, I have received a full explaination of the manner in which the credit card number is handled. It is not stored in the file, but there is a hash value tied to a small subset of the digits in a manner that makes extrapolation of the credit card number impossible even under the worst of circumstances. I could give a bit more information, but would rather error in the direction of caution as someone out there is always trying to break protection schemes.

This DRM method seems very reasonable after further consideration, and I think all of us here want eReader.com and other ebook vendors to succeed (how would you like Microsoft or Sony to take over the market all by itself one day with their user unfriendly DRM schemes?!!!). eReader will be coming out with a clearer statement about the use of credit card numbers in the future that will hopefully help future customers to feel more comfortable.

So, bottom line, I have no remaining privacy concerns specific to eReader.
My face is red for having been so silly to assume they had stored the credit card info in the files. You know what they say about those that ASS/U/ME. But all's well that ends well!

Now everyone go buy a book from eReader.com so I don't feel so bad about my original post!

P.S. In the process of resolving my concerns, I've made some contacts with some very nice people at eReader, and I hope to bring some interesting tidbits to this site as a result of that connection. Stay tuned for more!

cbarnett · 07-29-2004, 02:44 AM

Glad to hear all your issues are resolved, Bob! I just wish ereader for PPC had a landscape option.....

Craig.

07-28-2004, 10:37 PM	#20
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Privacy Issue Resolved: Confidence in eReader restored! After a discussion with eReader, I have received a full explaination of the manner in which the credit card number is handled. It is not stored in the file, but there is a hash value tied to a small subset of the digits in a manner that makes extrapolation of the credit card number impossible even under the worst of circumstances. I could give a bit more information, but would rather error in the direction of caution as someone out there is always trying to break protection schemes. This DRM method seems very reasonable after further consideration, and I think all of us here want eReader.com and other ebook vendors to succeed (how would you like Microsoft or Sony to take over the market all by itself one day with their user unfriendly DRM schemes?!!!). eReader will be coming out with a clearer statement about the use of credit card numbers in the future that will hopefully help future customers to feel more comfortable. So, bottom line, I have no remaining privacy concerns specific to eReader. My face is red for having been so silly to assume they had stored the credit card info in the files. You know what they say about those that ASS/U/ME. But all's well that ends well! Now everyone go buy a book from eReader.com so I don't feel so bad about my original post! P.S. In the process of resolving my concerns, I've made some contacts with some very nice people at eReader, and I hope to bring some interesting tidbits to this site as a result of that connection. Stay tuned for more!

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07-22-2004, 05:11 PM	#16
derekweb Groupie Posts: 160 Karma: 3134 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: United States Device: Palm Treo 700p & iPaq hx2755	Bob, no worries on the "enthusiasm". I can see your point on the issue of using a persons' credit card information as part of the DRM scheme. I've just finished checking the eReader application itself (loaded with 3 books), and I can't find any trace of my credit card (mind you, I haven't cracked open the databases themselves either, but I'm not a hex-hack). Which is good. The point that I would raise up beside yours, not against, would be a concern of eReader.com storing my credit card info in any way, shape or form, since I myself do not trust most online company's ability to protect my personal data from outside hacks or intrusion. The information that is inside the book itself on my palm pilot I'm not nearly as worried about (yet). But anyway, thank you for your response and clarification. It's appreciated.

07-22-2004, 07:23 PM	#17
cbarnett MR prodigal son Posts: 1,085 Karma: 1083739 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O	I'm not sure about it, but I don't think the CC number would be stored in the book file as such. The first time you open the book, you have to enter your name and CC number, which I imagine would then go through some complex algorithm against a _checksum_ of some sort embedded in the book. If they match, bingo, you can access the book. No one should be able to determine your private details from the book file or software on your PDA. As for what ereader.com do with your CC and other personal details, we have to trust them to store them securely and not pass anything on (like any other company we purchase from) I guess. I am firmly opposed to DRM of any sort, but find ereader.com's to be less intrusive than Microsoft or Mobipocket, for example (you can use the book any any system that has a reader for it, for example, as opposed to Mobipocket which is keyed to one particular PDA or PC... which is a shame as I prefer Mobipocket to Ereader as a reader (and have both registered ) Craig.

07-22-2004, 10:50 PM	#18
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Craig, You are much more clever than me! Maybe I was just caught so off-guard by the whole thing I wasn't thinking clearly. It seems to be just as you surmised, and eReader is most likely fine and dandy. If all turns out as expected, they have me back as a happy (but red-faced) customer. I received a response quickly to my email with concerns about the privacy issue, from no less than the Director of Operations. Surely he has little free time to be dealing with individual customers, so that's pretty outstanding of him to care that much about my concerns. That's one thumbs up already for eReader.com based on care of customers. Second thumbs up I'll confirm tomorrow, but there seems to be no privacy issue despite my great fears. I will be discussing the matter with him tomorrow over the phone, and he has already indicated that they use some kind of hash algorithm, and that the hash value is all that gets stored with the ebook. I do have a few more questions, but it looks very good, and most likely I'm going to have to humble myself and post a retraction of all the bad thoughts I shared about eReader! Despite the ugliness of DRM in general, I have to count myself a fan of any company that sells and supports ebooks in a fair and positive manner. And I agree that it seems to be a good compromise in terms of usability vs DRM control.

07-23-2004, 09:02 AM	#19
sUnShInE Drama Queen Posts: 784 Karma: 11712 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: United States Device: Palm Tungsten T\|T3	Proof that good customer service goes a long way.

07-29-2004, 02:44 AM	#21
cbarnett MR prodigal son Posts: 1,085 Karma: 1083739 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O	Glad to hear all your issues are resolved, Bob! I just wish ereader for PPC had a landscape option..... Craig.

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