DR800S: Reasons for PDF-Zoom function (was: ePub bug?)

[Matthijs]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

I'm hoping we'll hear something from them about the dictionary. Based on what I can see, it sounds like this is more of a technical issue than a business one (unlike zoom). For example, there are copies of the DR800 manual that include a section on the dictionary. I'm guessing that it either wasn't quite ready yet for the initial release, or else it was in there but had to be taken out due to a problem of some kind.

It would be nice to know for sure though, and if there are currently plans to add it.

The problem with dictionary support is the availability of dictionaries. In the Mobipocket days, dictionary support was part of the Mobi document format and it was possible for publishers to create a dictionary, protect it with DRM and sell it to end-users. End-users could then use these transparently, this was built into the Mobi SDK.

In the Adobe RMSDK, there is no support for dictionaries, so any dictionary support will have to be 'home-brew' and/or relying on open source dictionary software like e.g. StarDict. This reduces availability of dictionaries a lot.

We were initially planning for Online Lookup functionality in the DR800SG (using Wikipedia, Google, ...) but that went into the freezer for several reasons: technical, planning and business.

[etienne66]

It doesn't sound very promising for a dictionary for this device. I was hoping to buy one, but without a dictionary I won't be buying one. I guess I'll just have to wait for a Notion Ink Adam. I would still prefer the DR800SG for the 8" screen over the Adam as an ebook reader.

I would hope that Irex along with Sony, Adobe, Barnes & Noble and other ebook makers would be pushing for a dictionary support for the epub standard. I guess they can't adopt the Mobipocket tags due to copyright issues. If they could it would be real easy to recompile the new dictionary and use the Adobe DRM, but unfortunately I'm sure Amazon would be opposed to that since they own Mobipocket.

Etienne66

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by Matthijs

In the Adobe RMSDK, there is no support for dictionaries, so any dictionary support will have to be 'home-brew' and/or relying on open source dictionary software like e.g. StarDict. This reduces availability of dictionaries a lot.

This is a problem, but freely available dictionaries are better than no dictionaries. For example, Onyx and PocketBook are using this approach. The alternative is a single built in commercial dictionary (no additional DRM needed because it is built in and not directly accessible by the user). Both Sony and Amazon are using this approach, but it obviously increases the price of the device to bundle a dictionary.

The simplest solution would seem to be a command line dictionary lookup program (give it a word, get back plain text) interfaced to the UDS dictionary API. This would presumably have to be implemented by iRex.

[Mr. Goodbar]

Originally Posted by Matthijs

The problem with dictionary support is the availability of dictionaries. In the Mobipocket days, dictionary support was part of the Mobi document format and it was possible for publishers to create a dictionary, protect it with DRM and sell it to end-users. End-users could then use these transparently, this was built into the Mobi SDK.

In the Adobe RMSDK, there is no support for dictionaries, so any dictionary support will have to be 'home-brew' and/or relying on open source dictionary software like e.g. StarDict. This reduces availability of dictionaries a lot.

We were initially planning for Online Lookup functionality in the DR800SG (using Wikipedia, Google, ...) but that went into the freezer for several reasons: technical, planning and business.

I would look at the Sony and Kindle model for how to do a dictionary. I realize there might be incremental cost associated with this, but I would even be interested in paying for this feature. Set it up as a paid for upgrade if necessary. It would seem the coding would be relatively straightforward and content costs couldn't be above a few dollars per device. Charge ten to twenty dollars for the upgrade and bring your device to feature parity with your main competitors.

[SCION]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodbar

I would look at the Sony and Kindle model for how to do a dictionary. I realize there might be incremental cost associated with this, but I would even be interested in paying for this feature. Set it up as a paid for upgrade if necessary. It would seem the coding would be relatively straightforward and content costs couldn't be above a few dollars per device. Charge ten to twenty dollars for the upgrade and bring your device to feature parity with your main competitors.

You need a dictionary at $400!

[Mr. Goodbar]

Originally Posted by SCION

You need a dictionary at $400!

Much more clearly stated than my comments And, just to be clear to iRex......ditto to what she said!

On another note, a big thanks to the engagement of the iRex developers on this forum. I'm sure it's not easy having people question direction or argue about valid business tradeoff decisions. Thanks for your input and contribution to the forum and thanks for a great product. I'm personally loving this device and I've used them all.....great job.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodbar

On another note, a big thanks to the engagement of the iRex developers on this forum. I'm sure it's not easy having people question direction or argue about valid business tradeoff decisions. Thanks for your input and contribution to the forum and thanks for a great product.

Agreed. It's not many companies that would share the type of information that iRex does with their customers. They often catch a lot of grief over it, but I'm glad they continue to be open with us.

I'm personally loving this device and I've used them all.....great job.

Same here. I was initially a little worried about spending the money for the DR800 when I had a perfectly good iLiad already. Now that I've had a chance to see how much better the DR800 is, I don't regret the decision at all.

[Matthijs]

Clarification: I'm not saying we won't do dictionaries, I'm just saying it is not on the roadmap for the upcoming release.

[OrcaBlue]

Is dictionary feature something that we can be implement via the SDK?

[badbob001]

Originally Posted by Matthijs

We were initially planning for Online Lookup functionality in the DR800SG (using Wikipedia, Google, ...) but that went into the freezer for several reasons: technical, planning and business.

Reading between the lines, I'm guessing this means no internet access for any non-purchasing purposes, unlike wikipedia access on the kindle.

[Mr. Goodbar]

Originally Posted by Matthijs

Clarification: I'm not saying we won't do dictionaries, I'm just saying it is not on the roadmap for the upcoming release.

Cool, thanks for the clarification and again, thanks for the active participation in the forum.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by badbob001

Reading between the lines, I'm guessing this means no internet access for any non-purchasing purposes, unlike wikipedia access on the kindle.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...age=2&p=806165

[badbob001]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...age=2&p=806165

I'm not talking about user hacks. I'm saying that IREX *themselves* can't offer a non-purchasing usage of the connection like how Amazon offers wikipedia access. It may be a limitation of their agreement with verizon.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by badbob001

I'm not talking about user hacks. I'm saying that IREX *themselves* can't offer a non-purchasing usage of the connection like how Amazon offers wikipedia access. It may be a limitation of their agreement with verizon.

Yes, I assumed it was all part of the same agreement. Offering that would have increased their costs (same way that letting people do 3rd party hacks would). Somebody would have to pay for that bandwidth. Without billing the user and without purchases to take a cut from, it would have been up to iRex to pay it. Verizon's not going to give it away for free.

Makes you wonder what agreement is in place between Amazon and whatever provider they use for the wikipedia access.

That's one of the reasons I prefer WiFi to 3G in devices like this. You're generally allowed to do a lot more with WiFi, because there isn't a service contract tied to the device.

[Jedrzej]

Originally Posted by Matthijs

The problem with dictionary support is the availability of dictionaries. In the Mobipocket days, dictionary support was part of the Mobi document format and it was possible for publishers to create a dictionary, protect it with DRM and sell it to end-users. End-users could then use these transparently, this was built into the Mobi SDK.

In the Adobe RMSDK, there is no support for dictionaries, so any dictionary support will have to be 'home-brew' and/or relying on open source dictionary software like e.g. StarDict. This reduces availability of dictionaries a lot.

We were initially planning for Online Lookup functionality in the DR800SG (using Wikipedia, Google, ...) but that went into the freezer for several reasons: technical, planning and business.

So how come sony has dictionary? Also you missed a feature Sony added mp3 player, which is really nice if you want to read in the public transport instead of listening to surrounding noise - no firmware will fix that

In the end I want to see some reviews on how useful DR800s after firmware update because what I saw on youtube scarred me away. You change font size and tables in pdf disappear - not very good is it ? And the whole point of horizontal layout is that it should fit as much on the screen as possible not show the same thing horizontaly with huge margins... Again Sony got that right so it's possible. One more thing Sony gives nice leather cover with their reader why iRex can't do the same ? It's a bit ridiculous to spend £450 and then pay another £50 for leather cover which comes in one color, and it would be alright if that color was black not white.

I need a nice big screen(wide and tall) to read technical books but unless the software on this device starts working properly I won't consider spending £450... on something that it's alright unless you need to change font size. For that kind of price it must be a great device with spot on software that gives a great user experience.

Is the next generation of firmware going to address above issues? I know they want to add zoom, but does it mean changing font is going to ruin layout everytime and nobody sees a problem in it ?