Is the iPad suited for technical PDFs?

Johannes · 02-28-2010, 09:21 PM

A major reason for me to go for the iPad is its (assumed?) capability to display full size (A4 or letter) PDFs. (To be more specific: I need to be able to read PDFs from arXiv, some of which contain double columns, and virtually all of which contain mathematical equations.)
With a 9.7" screen and some margin cropping functionality, I expected not to have any display problems. So I had firm plans to purchase an iPad the very day it becomes available.

However, in a side-discussion in another thread Sonist wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonist

... IMO 9.7" is still too small for most PDFs, particularly tech/science ones.

This makes me doubt.

I did some spot checks. The PDFs I need to read show quite a variation in actual size of text area per page (i.e size with fully cropped margins). The smaller ones tend to fit just within 7.8" x 5.8" (which I figure is the size of an iPad screen). However, larger ones (typically the ones with double columns) reach sizes close to 9" x 7".

I start wondering: is the iPAD screen wrongly sized for A4 PDFs? Too small for portrait and unnecessarily large for landscape (with the added drawback of the need for frequent scrolling)?

Am I perhaps overly concerned? Or should I wait for a future 12" device becoming available? Anyone with experience in displaying PDFs on iPAD-size screens (Kindle DX)?

dmaul1114 · 03-01-2010, 12:45 PM

Will vary by the type of PDFs one uses.

For me, many of mine would be fine. But some of the scholarly journal articles I read are A4 sized and have 2 or 3 columns of text that would be too small shrunk to fit in portrait mode (it's already on the small size in the journal/printouts). Landscape mode sucks with multi column documents since you have to keep scrolling up and down on each page.

Also, I don't want to have to crop margins, as my main need for PDFs is to read and mark up research articles--and I scribble a lot of notes in the margins so I need to preserve them.

So I really want a table with an 8.5 x 11" screen so I know all my PDFs will display exactly as they do on printouts so I have no worries.

Oh, and Kindle DX PDF support isn't great. On top of the screen size issues, it doesn't support table of contents, I don't think it supports searching within PDFs etc. All stuff they could fix with firmware I'd think, but they haven't currently.

Sonist · 03-01-2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

...Oh, and Kindle DX PDF support isn't great. On top of the screen size issues, it doesn't support table of contents, I don't think it supports searching within PDFs etc. All stuff they could fix with firmware I'd think, but they haven't currently.

dmaul1114 is right, the Kindle support of PDF sucks, and I wouldn't get a Kindle DX as mainly a PDF reader.

It doesn't support TOC, nor live links (needed for footnotes), but it does support (a slow and a little awkward) Search within PDFs.

nekokami · 03-02-2010, 03:57 AM

I had an iRex iLiad for the purpose of reading PDFs, and the screen size was about the same as the iPad will feature. The size was usually adequate, especially in landscape mode, but multi-column PDFs were a pain to read. I think a more reactive display would really help. I would also hope there will be more options for reading/markup/citation management software in the lively iP* ecosystem.

frank.w · 03-02-2010, 05:00 AM

My experience hasn't been great with my Kindle and PDF's - in fact, I've found formatting problems with even standard .prc files. I suspect that many formatting problems can be overcome by editing the document to suit your particular reader, but who wants to do that?

Some day (I hope) there will be a small number of standardized formats that can relliably reproduce a technical document on a well-defined set of devices. To complement that I'd hope that there would be one or two "killer apps" that can convert anything into one of the accepted standards. We are starting to see moves in that direction with video -- .avi files seem to be the norm and there are a few aps that can do a pretty good job of conversion.

Here's hoping

- Frank

LDBoblo · 03-02-2010, 07:26 AM

I'd say with the limited size resolution of the iPad, it's a good idea to hold out for a little bit if you're going for A4 sized documents. If cropping margins is possible, then it might not be bad, but it's still right on the edge of readability, if the documents use smallish fonts.

Even so, if there are good PDF viewer applications made available for the iPad, you would have a significant advantage over just about any e-paper device as you can much more rapidly zoom and pan for things you're after. If the display can't very easily show the whole thing at once, it can certainly show the great majority with only a small amount of panning that can be done very swiftly with multitouch.

kissyfish · 03-02-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekokami

I had an iRex iLiad for the purpose of reading PDFs, and the screen size was about the same as the iPad will feature. The size was usually adequate, especially in landscape mode, but multi-column PDFs were a pain to read. I think a more reactive display would really help. I would also hope there will be more options for reading/markup/citation management software in the lively iP* ecosystem.

I had an iliad, which has an 8.1-inch display, it was not nearly acceptable for pdf's (don't get me wrong, I liked the device for reading, and playing chess and such), but my main goal was reading technical pdf's, and I found it unsuited for that task.

The ipad has a 9.7" display, which is approaching 25% bigger, and that will make quite a difference (at least I am hoping).

I am still curious about the QUE, but I am repelled by the WinCE OS on it, and the fact that I always felt burned by IRex, with all the vaporware they promised and never delivered on.

All of this, is of course, my humble opinion.

I just want my pdfs to be readable, everything else is icing on the cake.

nekokami · 03-03-2010, 10:31 AM

My bad, the iPad screen is larger than the iLiad screen. Another point in its favor.

yvanleterrible · 03-04-2010, 07:09 AM

An iPad will be as good a PDF viewer as a computer is a good CAD viewer.

I draw furniture that I build so I spend a lot of time with CAD software. When you work on a 36" by 48" inch plan on a 22" monitor, you can't get a good idea of details unless you zoom in and scroll around. Navigating in the drawing is 40% of the work.

With the iPad, you get that fantastic instant pinchin/pinchout zoom. Wow!
If I'm not mistaken the display will show a full page at 90%. Big enough to be legible for reading text. If it's not, turn the display 90 degrees and zoom up until you can read a full line and then scroll the remaining few lines. That's an other beauty of this device, it's so fast that scrolling can be as quick as turning a page. You need detail? Do as Cad workers do. Zoom with the most incredibly fast zoom I've ever seen!

54wo · 03-04-2010, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

Even so, if there are good PDF viewer applications made available for the iPad, you would have a significant advantage over just about any e-paper device as you can much more rapidly zoom and pan for things you're after. If the display can't very easily show the whole thing at once, it can certainly show the great majority with only a small amount of panning that can be done very swiftly with multitouch.

Aji Annotater for iphone may fit your demand. And the developer has begain to port it to iPad.

dmaul1114 · 03-04-2010, 01:41 PM

Zooming and scrolling is an option for sure. It's just a hassle that I don't want to have to deal with. I don't have to zoom and scroll my printouts currently, so I'll stick with them that has a letter sized screen or larger so I can view them at 100%--and has great stylus support for marking them up like I do printouts currently.

But yeah, for some the iPad is fine if they don't mind zooming, or mostly read single column documents that will be readable at 90% etc.

jibril · 03-04-2010, 02:21 PM

It might fit if the margins are automatically disregarded... if not, you can put it on its side with the wider screen and scroll up/down but at least not left-right.

dmaul1114 · 03-04-2010, 02:25 PM

As I noted, I don't want to disgard margins on the PDFs that are problems--letter sized ones with 2 or 3 columns.

The margins are already small, and I need room to jot notes.

I know I'm very picky on this, but again printouts have worked fine for my academic career thus far and I'll stick with them until I get a tablet that does exactly what I want. I can print PDFs for no cost to me, I'm not going to shell out my own money for a tablet that makes my work harder/less convenient.

jibril · 03-04-2010, 02:43 PM

I was mostly addressing Johannes' points. But he should really find some example pdfs on the web (or upload them himself) -- and then when the iPad is in the Apple stores - go out and try one with his real world examples to see how it works for him.

dmaul1114 · 03-04-2010, 03:21 PM

Agreed, the best one can do it try it out for themselves with the types of PDFs they use and see if they can accept the zooming, scrolling etc.

I don't have to as I have no patience for that stuff, and have several journals I read that are in 2 column letter sized formats, but everyone is different.

03-01-2010, 12:45 PM	#2
dmaul1114 Wizard Posts: 2,300 Karma: 1121709 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle 1	Will vary by the type of PDFs one uses. For me, many of mine would be fine. But some of the scholarly journal articles I read are A4 sized and have 2 or 3 columns of text that would be too small shrunk to fit in portrait mode (it's already on the small size in the journal/printouts). Landscape mode sucks with multi column documents since you have to keep scrolling up and down on each page. Also, I don't want to have to crop margins, as my main need for PDFs is to read and mark up research articles--and I scribble a lot of notes in the margins so I need to preserve them. So I really want a table with an 8.5 x 11" screen so I know all my PDFs will display exactly as they do on printouts so I have no worries. Oh, and Kindle DX PDF support isn't great. On top of the screen size issues, it doesn't support table of contents, I don't think it supports searching within PDFs etc. All stuff they could fix with firmware I'd think, but they haven't currently. Last edited by dmaul1114; 03-01-2010 at 02:28 PM.

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03-02-2010, 03:57 AM	#4
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	I had an iRex iLiad for the purpose of reading PDFs, and the screen size was about the same as the iPad will feature. The size was usually adequate, especially in landscape mode, but multi-column PDFs were a pain to read. I think a more reactive display would really help. I would also hope there will be more options for reading/markup/citation management software in the lively iP* ecosystem.

03-02-2010, 05:00 AM	#5
frank.w Enthusiast Posts: 25 Karma: 12 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Device: Kindle (sans 3G)	My experience hasn't been great with my Kindle and PDF's - in fact, I've found formatting problems with even standard .prc files. I suspect that many formatting problems can be overcome by editing the document to suit your particular reader, but who wants to do that? Some day (I hope) there will be a small number of standardized formats that can relliably reproduce a technical document on a well-defined set of devices. To complement that I'd hope that there would be one or two "killer apps" that can convert anything into one of the accepted standards. We are starting to see moves in that direction with video -- .avi files seem to be the norm and there are a few aps that can do a pretty good job of conversion. Here's hoping - Frank

03-02-2010, 07:26 AM	#6
LDBoblo Wizard Posts: 1,385 Karma: 16056 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Asia Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Sony PRS-505	I'd say with the limited size resolution of the iPad, it's a good idea to hold out for a little bit if you're going for A4 sized documents. If cropping margins is possible, then it might not be bad, but it's still right on the edge of readability, if the documents use smallish fonts. Even so, if there are good PDF viewer applications made available for the iPad, you would have a significant advantage over just about any e-paper device as you can much more rapidly zoom and pan for things you're after. If the display can't very easily show the whole thing at once, it can certainly show the great majority with only a small amount of panning that can be done very swiftly with multitouch.

03-03-2010, 10:31 AM	#8
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	My bad, the iPad screen is larger than the iLiad screen. Another point in its favor.

03-04-2010, 07:09 AM	#9
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	An iPad will be as good a PDF viewer as a computer is a good CAD viewer. I draw furniture that I build so I spend a lot of time with CAD software. When you work on a 36" by 48" inch plan on a 22" monitor, you can't get a good idea of details unless you zoom in and scroll around. Navigating in the drawing is 40% of the work. With the iPad, you get that fantastic instant pinchin/pinchout zoom. Wow! If I'm not mistaken the display will show a full page at 90%. Big enough to be legible for reading text. If it's not, turn the display 90 degrees and zoom up until you can read a full line and then scroll the remaining few lines. That's an other beauty of this device, it's so fast that scrolling can be as quick as turning a page. You need detail? Do as Cad workers do. Zoom with the most incredibly fast zoom I've ever seen!

03-04-2010, 01:41 PM	#11
dmaul1114 Wizard Posts: 2,300 Karma: 1121709 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle 1	Zooming and scrolling is an option for sure. It's just a hassle that I don't want to have to deal with. I don't have to zoom and scroll my printouts currently, so I'll stick with them that has a letter sized screen or larger so I can view them at 100%--and has great stylus support for marking them up like I do printouts currently. But yeah, for some the iPad is fine if they don't mind zooming, or mostly read single column documents that will be readable at 90% etc.

03-04-2010, 02:21 PM	#12
jibril Connoisseur Posts: 68 Karma: 54 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: none	It might fit if the margins are automatically disregarded... if not, you can put it on its side with the wider screen and scroll up/down but at least not left-right.

03-04-2010, 02:25 PM	#13
dmaul1114 Wizard Posts: 2,300 Karma: 1121709 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle 1	As I noted, I don't want to disgard margins on the PDFs that are problems--letter sized ones with 2 or 3 columns. The margins are already small, and I need room to jot notes. I know I'm very picky on this, but again printouts have worked fine for my academic career thus far and I'll stick with them until I get a tablet that does exactly what I want. I can print PDFs for no cost to me, I'm not going to shell out my own money for a tablet that makes my work harder/less convenient.

03-04-2010, 02:43 PM	#14
jibril Connoisseur Posts: 68 Karma: 54 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: none	I was mostly addressing Johannes' points. But he should really find some example pdfs on the web (or upload them himself) -- and then when the iPad is in the Apple stores - go out and try one with his real world examples to see how it works for him.

03-04-2010, 03:21 PM	#15
dmaul1114 Wizard Posts: 2,300 Karma: 1121709 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle 1	Agreed, the best one can do it try it out for themselves with the types of PDFs they use and see if they can accept the zooming, scrolling etc. I don't have to as I have no patience for that stuff, and have several journals I read that are in 2 column letter sized formats, but everyone is different.