Funny I don't feel like a criminal

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Heavens no. I see absolutely nothing wrong with removing DRM for personal use. I'm afraid I do think it's wrong to give an eBook to someone else, but that's purely my personal opinion - everyone has to make up their own mind about the rights or wrongs of it.

Thanks, Harry; I'm sorry I misunderstood you.

The main thing I'm trying to say is that in my opinion the criterion should be whether anyone is harmed by copying. If I pay for a book, remove the DRM, don't read it myself and give it to some one else, and remove it from my computer - as I seem to remember the original poster did - then no one is harmed, and it isn't wrong to do. One ebook is bought, one ebook is read - even if not by the original purchaser. It's a long way back now, but I seem to remember that the original poster's mother does not have the skills to do the work herself. I can't see how it is wrong for her son to do it for her.

Regards, Alex

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Heavens no. I see absolutely nothing wrong with removing DRM for personal use. I'm afraid I do think it's wrong to give an eBook to someone else, but that's purely my personal opinion - everyone has to make up their own mind about the rights or wrongs of it.

I'm married, in what we call "community of goods". So, I buy a book and read it. And then I give that book to my husband. At that point, I technically gave the book away (while keeping a copy myself, or rather multiple copies, as I like to keep backups).

Is that wrong?

[darylbrayman]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

Thanks, Harry; I'm sorry I misunderstood you.

The main thing I'm trying to say is that in my opinion the criterion should be whether anyone is harmed by copying. If I pay for a book, remove the DRM, don't read it myself and give it to some one else, and remove it from my computer - as I seem to remember the original poster did - then no one is harmed, and it isn't wrong to do. One ebook is bought, one ebook is read - even if not by the original purchaser. It's a long way back now, but I seem to remember that the original poster's mother does not have the skills to do the work herself. I can't see how it is wrong for her son to do it for her.

Regards, Alex

I read the book, removed the DRM, emailed it to my mother and then deleted it from my reader and hard drive. As somebody said earlier hard drive space is cheap. Ok, I deleted it out of habit and to keep a cleaner looking computer/reader. My mother would claim that she does have the skills to remove the DRM, but just doesn't want to bother

[darylbrayman]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I'm married, in what we call "community of goods". So, I buy a book and read it. And then I give that book to my husband. At that point, I technically gave the book away (while keeping a copy myself, or rather multiple copies, as I like to keep backups).

Is that wrong?

My wife and I share Sony accounts. When either of us purchase a book the other is legally able to download a copy. As long as we don't go over six devices were copacetic. At least that's how I see it.

Regards, Daryl

[EliNoah]

Maybe there needs to be sometype of drm restriction that allows you to give away a certain number of copies. What is the average lifespan of a well read book?

i.e. I have 9 people in my family 7 kids, 2 adults. We buy ONE set of HP books. Every one reads them...Each book as now been read 9 times...sometimes two of us are reading the same book at once. My 10 year old reading book one during the day, me reading after she goes to bed.

We are all done reading and I loan to my sister, who has 5 people in the family, 3 kids-2 adults. The books are all read again.

By this time maybe a cover is missing, pages torn etc. How many times were each of those books read? Is that the life span of the book? What if an ebook allowed you to loan or give it away a certain number of reasonable times (not like the nook with just once) but say 50 times. Would that stop piracy?

I mean after it has been downloaded 50 times it would be no good to anyone else...especially if there was some code that it contained that outlined the specifics.

Probably far fetched, but may be poss. some day.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by darylbrayman

My wife and I share Sony accounts. When either of us purchase a book the other is legally able to download a copy. As long as we don't go over six devices were copacetic. At least that's how I see it.

Regards, Daryl

I don't have a Sony account, I don't even have an ADE account. I strip the DRM of my mobipocket books (or transform LIT and ereader to mobipocket) and put it on my husband's SD card. I recently gave him a new PDA (he loves it to bits, Harry! He even watched a lot of Olympic games on it ) and I've no idea what the mobipocket code is. And I couldn't register it to my name anyway, as I already own 4 mobipocket devices.... (PDA, JE100, PC and Laptop).

So, I buy the book, it's registered with my 4 devices, but not his.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Harder to accidentally download something, save it in a specific folder, can even have it proven that they've opened the file multiple times (last accessed date on the file, vs. the download date from the info that got them caught etc. Now some people may download something, save it and use it etc. and not know it was copyrighted. But that's just too bad, so sad as ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. And it's not huge deal if it's just a tiny fine that's barely more than what the MSRP is for the file they downloaded illegally.

So all of the customers who (as far as they knew) innocently bought and downloaded the Orwell eBook from Amazon would be criminals. Amazon was distributing infringed material, are their customers criminals or just the distributor?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I'm married, in what we call "community of goods". So, I buy a book and read it. And then I give that book to my husband. At that point, I technically gave the book away (while keeping a copy myself, or rather multiple copies, as I like to keep backups).

Is that wrong?

Not in my mind, no.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm afraid I do think it's wrong to give an eBook to someone else, but that's purely my personal opinion - everyone has to make up their own mind about the rights or wrongs of it.

Do you think it's wrong to give a pBook to someone else?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Do you think it's wrong to give a pBook to someone else?

Certainly not, because there's no copyright infringement involved in doing that. That is of course the fundamental difference between giving someone a pbook and giving someone (actually making a copy) of an ebook.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Certainly not, because there's no copyright infringement involved in doing that. That is of course the fundamental difference between giving someone a pbook and giving someone (actually making a copy) of an ebook.

Even if there is only one copy of an eBook at a time?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Even if there is only one copy of an eBook at a time?

I'm in two minds about it, Shaggy.

On the one hand, I think "yes" - you can do it with a pbook, so you ought to be able to do it with an ebook.

On the other hand, if you've agreed to the terms of sale of an ebook store which say "you can't give it away", then I think you should be bound by those terms which you've knowingly agreed to when you bought the book.

Of course there are lots of ebooks that you can give away, but I guess you're specifically talking about bookstore-bought ones?

It's too complex a question to be able to give a simple yes/no answer to. "It depends on the circumstances" is a "weasel" answer, I know, but I'm afraid it's the best I can do.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

On the other hand, if you've agreed to the terms of sale of an ebook store which say "you can't give it away", then I think you should be bound by those terms which you've knowingly agreed to when you bought the book.

Even though such terms have no basis in law and are not enforceable?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Even though such terms have no basis in law and are not enforceable?

Yes; it's a matter of ethics, not law. If you cannot agree with the terms of a purchase than the "correct" thing to do - for me personally - is not to make the purchase. Other people are, of course, free to make up their own minds about such matters. This whole thread has been about "right" and "wrong", rather than "legal" and "illegal".

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes; it's a matter of ethics, not law. If you cannot agree with the terms of a purchase than the "correct" thing to do - for me personally - is not to make the purchase. Other people are, of course, free to make up their own minds about such matters. This whole thread has been about "right" and "wrong", rather than "legal" and "illegal".

So you feel it's "right" that retailers try to make claims in the fine print that they are legally not allowed to make? Or is it only the customer that should be held to an ethical standard?