No more DRM for Amazon says Defective by Design

[JSWolf]

I received the following email message earlier tonight...

Dear signer,


Defective by Design has presented its petition to Jeff Bezos and Amazon, demanding that Amazon remove Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) from all their products.


(If you have received this email in error, see below to change your subscription settings.)


Since the petition launched, Amazon has taken two small steps away from total DRM-enforced control: their publishing platform changed to make it easier for publishers to submit DRM-free PDFs, and a proprietary firmware update allows Amazon's "Swindles" to read DRM-free PDFs that were not downloaded from Amazon.


We're submitting the petition to Amazon to remind them that the thousands of writers, readers, academics, librarians, and public intellectuals who signed our petition asked for much more: a full removal of any DRM from the ebooks Amazon sells and the "Swindle" device itself. We're also contacting publishers encouraging them to take advantage of whatever new DRM-free options Amazon provides.


Finally, the FSF and the Open Rights Group announced that Tuesday May 4th will be the Day Against DRM. This is an opportunity not just to point out which DRM schemes are nasty but to call for society to take a stand against all forms of digital restrictions being imposed on our computers and devices. Read our announcement: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/decade-in-drm


And thanks for your support!


Holmes, John, Matt and Peter
DRM Elimination Team

Anyone think they have a chance of persuading Amazon to drop all DRM?

[pilotbob]

I don't think having a petition calling Amazon's product the "Swindle" is really going to be taken too seriously and gain much traction.

I wouldn't sign such a thing for that reason. Now, word it professionally and add in some concrete reasons I will be happy to affix my name to the petition.

BOb

[Alisa]

No. I think it would take some big DRM-free competition to get Amazon to do it just like Amazon did to Apple with music. Of course, to do that someone would also need to get the publishers on board. Ebooks are far from being the competition to print that mp3s were to CDs. The music industry was over a barrel. Publishers aren't. In fact, I often think they would like to slow down the rate at which readers move away from paper. I don't doubt that DRM-free will be the way of things eventually. I'm just not going to hold my breath waiting for it.

[dmaul1114]

Yeah, petitions seldom do anything, especially not when they're unprofessional like that.

And Alisa is right, just like Apple stuck to their DRM as long as possible with music until they had their hands forced by other companies, it will be the same with eBooks.

The major stores like Amazon and Sony and Barnes and Noble won't drop their DRM until some smaller stores drop theirs and start siphoning sales from them. And Amazon will probably be like Apple and be the last to drop it since they apparently have the market share lead (if their claims are to be believed).

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

And Alisa is right, just like Apple stuck to their DRM as long as possible with music until they had their hands forced by other companies, it will be the same with eBooks.

Well, according to Steve Jobs Open Letter on DRM it was the publishers who were forcing the issue... not Apple.

But, I do think just like music eventually eBooks will all be sold DRM free to0.

BOb

[SCION]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I don't think having a petition calling Amazon's product the "Swindle" is really going to be taken too seriously and gain much traction.

I wouldn't sign such a thing for that reason. Now, word it professionally and add in some concrete reasons I will be happy to affix my name to the petition.

BOb

I agree. The name Swindle is very off-putting and insulting.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Well, according to Steve Jobs Open Letter on DRM it was the publishers who were forcing the issue... not Apple.

But, I do think just like music eventually eBooks will all be sold DRM free to0.

BOb

Publishers were always forcing the issue. But Apple was the last major store to go against them and drop DRM.

But I agree. DRM for books will drop off just like it did for music once the e-book market is big enough to be vocal enough that they have little choice.

[asjogren]

To me, additional features to the Kindle are more important than removing DRM.

First priority:
I want to read Public Library eBooks - so I want support for ePub and PDF with Adobe Digital Editions DRM. I also want to read MobiPocket DRM. (Yes, I can do this all now myself through a variety of tools, scripts, and messing around)

Second priority:
I want the ability to checkout eBooks from the Public Library DIRECTLY using the Kindle and have them available to read with no other intervention.

Third priority:
I want the eBook industry to setup an Exchange where if I buy a different device, I can convert all the eBooks that I have purchased to the new format/new DRM scheme. It would be extra nice if this Exchange allowed sales and lending with the appropriate hooks to the eReading devices/Software. The reason I say this in an Amazon thread - is that Amazon could be one of the main drivers of the initiative.

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Yeah, petitions seldom do anything, especially not when they're unprofessional like that.

And Alisa is right, just like Apple stuck to their DRM as long as possible with music until they had their hands forced by other companies, it will be the same with eBooks.

The major stores like Amazon and Sony and Barnes and Noble won't drop their DRM until some smaller stores drop theirs and start siphoning sales from them. And Amazon will probably be like Apple and be the last to drop it since they apparently have the market share lead (if their claims are to be believed).

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Well, according to Steve Jobs Open Letter on DRM it was the publishers who were forcing the issue... not Apple.

But, I do think just like music eventually eBooks will all be sold DRM free to0.

BOb

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Publishers were always forcing the issue. But Apple was the last major store to go against them and drop DRM.

But I agree. DRM for books will drop off just like it did for music once the e-book market is big enough to be vocal enough that they have little choice.

Apple was the last major store to drop DRM completely because all but one of the big record labels refused to allow Apple to sell DRM-free music for years after they offered it through other stores (such as Amazon). Note that Apple and EMI went DRM-free before the other big stores!

Re Apple & DRM more generally, see my previous posts here and here. One-sentence summary: Apple has consistently opposed DRM for straight-forward business reasons (as in: "DRM does not make good business sense for Apple").

The history of Apple and DRM is quite clear if you go back and read original news reports on the subject. It's also important to realize that there's a subset of the open-source world that believed otherwise from the start—perhaps they were influenced by Richard Stallman's well-documented dislike for Apple. Or maybe it was something else; I don't really know. But the meme in the open-source community has been at odds with the detailed news reporting from the very beginning... and my sources indicate that said meme has been dead-wrong from the very beginning!

As always, YMMV.

Xenophon

[Canuck_in_Japan]

Holy misleading thread title. How about "DbD petitions Amazon for DRM free ebooks" ?

[fugazied]

What is this madness? Amazon doesn't need persuading, it's the publishers!

For Amazon to drop DRM they need the publishers on board, and with current publisher attitudes I don't see it happening very easily. Amazon know that less DRM means more sales (as seen by their mp3 experience), why on earth would they want DRM.

re: Apple and DRM. You don't even need serial numbers for their 95% of Apple software products. iTunes has been DRM free for ages, but I am willing to wager itunes e-books will have DRM as demanded by publishers.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by fugazied

For Amazon to drop DRM they need the publishers on board, and with current publisher attitudes I don't see it happening very easily. Amazon know that less DRM means more sales (as seen by their mp3 experience), why on earth would they want DRM.

I agree. If you want to petition anyone it should be the big 4 publishers. I'm sure the smaller and indie publishers would fall into line.

BOb

[Ervserver]

Nobody tells Bezos what to do

[Dr. Drib]

In order for an argument to be effective - and the same holds true in a petition, in my opinion - one must respect the other's position.

Name-calling will not win anyone's respect.

Think "DEBATE" - using logos, pathos, and ethos - and WITH RESPECT TOWARD THE OPPOSITION, KNOCK DOWN YOUR OPPONENT'S POSITION AND ESTABLISH WITH AUTHORITY YOUR OWN POSITION.


Do that in your petition, and I'll sign it.

Don

[JSWolf]

So which major publisher do you think will be the first to do away with DRM?