"If you can afford an ebook reader, you can afford ebook prices"

[SimonSays]

The thing is, theft just creates for higher prices, not lower ones. If everyone were to start stealing, authors wouldn't make any money at all and would stop making their work available to the public.

I just wish publishers would set their prices realistically. There is no reason why an ebook, especially with limitations due to ADE, should cost more than the mass market paperback version, IMHO

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by SimonSays

I just wish publishers would set their prices realistically. There is no reason why an ebook, especially with limitations due to ADE, should cost more than the mass market paperback version, IMHO

Agree 100%.

At least once the mass market paperback is out. I have no problem with the e-book costing more while the Hardcover is the only print edition.

[kindlekitten]

ok, let's get this straight. I don't just take anything because it can be taken. I read Under the Dome as a darknet copy. I also bought it. I was mad as hell at the artificial waiting period to release the ecopy.

I'm reading darknet copies of the Wheel of Time. I have (and I'm not exagerating) gone through at least 5 tree copies of all but number 12 which I own as a tree copy as well. the artificial wait times on this release turned me to the darknet as well. AND I'VE ALREADY BOUGHT THE BOOK NUMEROUS TIMES!!!!

until publishers get the timing and the pricing out of their 5th point of contact I will continue to pirate. not everything, not from the rational stuff. but there is still room for piracy

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by SimonSays

The thing is, theft just creates for higher prices, not lower ones. If everyone were to start stealing, authors wouldn't make any money at all and would stop making their work available to the public.

I just wish publishers would set their prices realistically. There is no reason why an ebook, especially with limitations due to ADE, should cost more than the mass market paperback version, IMHO

Actually, 'theft' of ebooks doesn't increase the publication costs to the publishers or the retailers as no physical object has gone missing which needs to be replaced. Think about it. Has any paper been stolen? Has any printing ink gone missing? Are shipping containers destroyed or have delivery trucks been kyped, stripped and shipped off to foreign countries? Same with administrative labor costs. All of the work done to create the dead-tree books or formatting the original ebook files have been done and do not need to be re-performed. Yes, the intellectual property has been made off with, but there are no additional costs incurred by the 'theft' of ebooks.

Derek

[Iphinome]

delphidb96 it could be argued that higher prices would be needed to make back their costs for producing an ebook though for a new release which is already on their computers. in theory already proofread and already has some formatting it's hard to imaginethe cost of turning it into an epub, mobi or pdf to be very high.

At this point I'm not sure it matters anymore, kindle owners like me are all flitlhy pirates anyway since the kindle runs linux. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ctual-property in for a minimum, in for a stellar.

[SimonSays]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Yes, the intellectual property has been made off with, but there are no additional costs incurred by the 'theft' of ebooks.

Derek

I agree with that, but authors still lose money whether someone steals an ebook or paperback and they aren't happy when profits go down (less profits may end up not writing anymore). That's all I was trying to say

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by SimonSays

I agree with that, but authors still lose money whether someone steals an ebook or paperback and they aren't happy when profits go down (less profits may end up not writing anymore). That's all I was trying to say

Yep it's different to theft, so we can just call it something else like piracy and make it a misdemeanor.

We'll eventually get to a point where there are few if any physical products in many categories decades down the road when you can't buy paper books, or CDs or dvds/blurays etc.

The criminal laws will have to update to cover that fact that these products can't be stolen in the traditional sense of theft anymore as there's no tangible, physical product to be stolen. So companies, content creators etc. main concern is people downloading or other wise obtaining a copy of their content without paying for it.

If the law doesn't adapt, and we don't find ways to reduce piracy we'll end up 50 or 100 years down the road with a system where we can't even have DIGITAL copies of content to own ourselves.

But rather we'll all be hooked up to superfast, always up internet service and just pay for licenses to access the content remotely, and have access to it from any machine that we long into with our account info etc. And I don't think many of us want that vs. buying and really owning content that's not DRMed, has clear fair use laws attached to it etc.

But if we keep acting like piracy isn't some major moral wrong, and isn't a major loss of revenue to publishers, authors, musicians, movie studios etc. which should be treated as a minor criminal issue (major if it's thousands of dollars worth of content) we'll head to a system where they control all the content themselves and you either pay to access it or do without IMO. Somethings got to give on the rampant piracy front as we move further and further into the digital age.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by SimonSays

I agree with that, but authors still lose money whether someone steals an ebook or paperback and they aren't happy when profits go down (less profits may end up not writing anymore). That's all I was trying to say

There no guarantee of profit though. I'd say it's against the public interest to enforce someone's profit margin or buisness model. Some people might not write if there's no profit, other people will and let's be honest quality is subjective. On a personal level, I like the authors I like, I want to support them, I buy their books when priced reasonably, I buy them used when not but on an ideological level I feel bound to speak out against the kind of madness going on with copyright these days and I can't fault people who game an unjust system. Copyright is a monopoly over a creative work, to get back on topic just because one might be able to afford an overpriced ebook doesn't mean they should have to. States can and do regulate monopolies and don't allow them to gouge with pricing statutory pricing isn't unheard of, look at your utility bills sometime. Amazon in their own way tried to set price at $10 maybe someone with a bigger stick will come along and force it, maybe infringement rates will skyrocket, maybe content providers will have it thrown in their face that less profit isn't the same as losing money as creditors don't beat down your doors when the amount over what it takes to pay your bills goes down.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

Copyright is a monopoly over a creative work,

Content holders should have a monopoly over their creative work they choose to create to sell for profit.

Nothing is stopping anyone from creating content and giving it away for free.

But if they choose not to, and choose to create the content for profit, then they have a right to have a monopoly over that content. If it's good enough that people want to enjoy it, they have to compensate them at the current price.

If the price is too high, do without, wait for price drops, check it out from the library instead of buying etc. etc. Being priced too high for your liking or budget, doesn't justify getting a copy without paying for it.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Content holders should have a monopoly over their creative work they choose to create to sell for profit.

Nothing is stopping anyone from creating content and giving it away for free.

For the first part, why? We have a public domain for a reason. People can go in change the body lines file off the serial numbers and then add a fancy new horn, why shouldn't everyone get access to that new horn the way they have access to the unmodified version, if someone comes up with a similar new horn why should they be stopped because the horn was someone else's idea? why shouldn't the common culture be shared? I know I'm taking about something that would be a patent not a copyright but a patent lasts for 20 years, copyright can easily last for 150 years what justification is there for giving anyone an 150 year monopoly? In what way does this promote the progress of the useful arts?

Second part http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ctual-property

They copyright lobby who you seem to be supporting for reasons that are beyond me claim that making your own equivalent and giving it away for free is akin to piracy since it undermines their buisness model of making you pay. A simple analogy would be instillation and use of free water fountains is stealing money from hard working starbucks executives by allowing people to have something, anything to drink without having to pay $8.

Why are you defending these people and this system. You're not helping authors, they're getting screwed over by publishers you're suggesting insect repellent to someone being eaten by a bear.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

They copyright lobby who you seem to be supporting for reasons that are beyond me claim that making your own equivalent and giving it away for free is akin to piracy since it undermines their buisness model of making you pay. A simple analogy would be instillation and use of free water fountains is stealing money from hard working starbucks executives by allowing people to have something, anything to drink without having to pay $8.

That is not a correct analogy. A suitable analogy would be if you want to go to concert without assigned seats and you copy a friends ticket on your advanced printer rather than buying one. Is that stealing? The organizers have not lost any physical tickets. You may not have gone at all if you had to pay. Exactly the same situation as copying an ebook.

I do believe, however, that we must have the same rights we have with a pbook. But not more, it should always only be one copy in existance at one time.

[Iphinome]

Read the link I posted, the analogy is apt. They're suggesting that countries that promote free and open source software are pirates.

[captcrouton]

I don't remember buying a Best Sellers. Those that I have read, I'm sure I've gotten at the library or borrowed from a friend. I don't remember buying any hard cover book that wasn't on sale. Maybe I'm wrong, but none come to mind.

Ultimately for me it really doesn't matter. I think all these factors will sort itself out. If ebooks are priced high, people won't buy them. If enough people don't buy them, they don't sell, the publishers take a loss, and the next time they don't make the same mistake. Those books/authors/etc fall by the wayside. But there's no shortage of good books to read. There's no book I have to read so desperately that I'll pay $15 to download and not even be able to share it with friends. If you charge me $15 than give me the same benefits. Let me "own" the book, with the right to share and sell.

I just finished, "At the Back of the North Wind," a beautiful book and absolutely free, thank you Project Gutenberg. Nothing illegal done. As good or better than anything I could pay even $9.99 for. I know there's tons more great classics that I can't read them all in my lifetime. So the publishers are just helping me narrow that focus.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

Read the link I posted, the analogy is apt. They're suggesting that countries that promote free and open source software are pirates.

...

Even for them, that's ridonkulous.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

...

Even for them, that's ridonkulous.

What's nuts about it, is Indonesia is one of the ones that is being classed that way, because they sent a circular around to the gov't departments making a suggestion of using opensource software. Saying "Hey, it would be cool if you guys used this free stuff" is enough to get you banded as a pirate. yarrrrr, shiver me timbers.