Backlash against Author Douglas Preston

[dmaul1114]

I get all that, I'm just not much of a free market economist and lean MUCH more socialist in my political and economic views, so it's just another agree to disagree issue.

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

You can have all that without publishers. Authors can hire editors/proofreaders, they can hire a marketing firm etc.

I can see new, service based, company arising from this. All they do is that sort of thing for the authors with no actual selling, publishing, or distribution involved.

You write a book they will proof read it for you for $X per page/word. Oh, you need editing as well, that is $y. The author gets the finished product back and can do whatever they like with it.

hmmm, where is my guide to writing business plans....

[Kevin2960]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Agree 100% with that.

E-books should cost about the same as the physical book. When it's hardcover only, charge the hardcover price or close to it. When it goes to paper back, lower accordingly.

The problem is you still get posters on here bitching that the e-books should be cheaper since they don't have to print a physical copy, ship it out etc. etc. and thus it costs less on their end.

And some of that is true. So the e-book can be priced less than the hardback--at a level that the publisher and author get the same cut they do out of a hardback sale. And then drop prices when the paper back comes out accordingly.

But many expect e-books to be $9.99 from the get go when the hardcover comes out, due a sense of entitlement or whatever you want to call it, and that's the problem that get's authors and publishers riled up.

I Agree 100%

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by dsvick

I can see new, service based, company arising from this. All they do is that sort of thing for the authors with no actual selling, publishing, or distribution involved.

You write a book they will proof read it for you for $X per page/word. Oh, you need editing as well, that is $y. The author gets the finished product back and can do whatever they like with it.

hmmm, where is my guide to writing business plans....

Exactly.

And there are already editing companies out there. If you need a proofreader, you can pay for one. Working in academia, I know some profs who pay for copy editing of their articles etc. as English isn't their first language etc.

And the stuff has to go out well as we don't get paid by journals for publishing articles etc. The journals do have editors etc., but they'll reject stuff if it needs much editing when you submit it.

Same thing with free lance journalists etc., some successful ones with the means to do so use editing services etc. to make sure they're work is perfect when it's sent out etc.

[pricecw]

I was part of this Backlash, I didn't leave one-star reviews, rather I e-mailed the author directly and let him know of my distaste for his statements. My wife and I have pretty much bought all the books these two have released in the past, but will likely not buy new copies in the future.

One of the things that bothers me is statements authors make like this one.

We, as writers, have no real say in the matter, and no real influence on either side of the issue.

The author, by law, has complete control up to the point that they decide to contract that control away. I can't feel bad for an author who claims they have no control, when they had complete control, but decided it was easier to give it up.

I am currently without an ereader, I have been waiting till one that meets my needs came along. My biggest need is tech documents, and I have an enTourage eDGe on order. However, I view this whole publisher/author thing as a way to try and milk me for as much money as they can.

My current plan, I will by books for my ereader from authors and companies that treat me like a customer and not as a thief that they have to do everything they can to protect themselves against, while looting my wallet. I have built up some free books from authors from this site (links to books), some of which are first books in a series. If I like the first one, I will be more than happy to pay for the next ones. With all the books available to me, in formats I find acceptable (DRM free), I don't think I will ever miss not reading books by authors who would like nothing more than I go away, but please leave the money on the way out.

--Carl

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

The problem is you still get posters on here bitching that the e-books should be cheaper since they don't have to print a physical copy, ship it out etc. etc. and thus it costs less on their end.

And some of that is true. So the e-book can be priced less than the hardback--at a level that the publisher and author get the same cut they do out of a hardback sale. And then drop prices when the paper back comes out accordingly.

But many expect e-books to be $9.99 from the get go when the hardcover comes out, due a sense of entitlement or whatever you want to call it, and that's the problem that get's authors and publishers riled up.

On the other hand, you could also argue that eBooks have more value and should cost more if for no other reason than the convenience of having them in an easy to transport, back up, and categorize form. Take that argument add it to the "it takes less resources" argument, shake well and what do you get? I've no idea, we'll probably find out in few years when all the dust settles - I'm betting it is pretty close to the current pricing structure.

We have to remember that regardless of how unfair we may think it is, or how lop-sided, archaic, or any other negative adjective we come up, the pricing structure and schedule that is in place now has been working for quite some time and, for the most part, people are reasonably happy with it. If, right now, everyone is happy with making $X as an industry, they are going to want to keep making $X regardless of the format of the books.

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Exactly.

And there are already editing companies out there.

Crap! *deletes fledgling business plan*

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Uh huh. Most big publishers have profit margins ranging from 8-15%, hardly an extortionate rate -- in fact, right around the same range as a typical author's royalty rates. Meanwhile, the public is demanding that publishers both slash their prices by 30% (far more than what they save by going electronic) and increase their costs even further by doubling, or tripling the royalties.

With a standard 30-40% return-and-pulp rate for pbooks, how can that be? Ebooks don't have to return any copies to make space for new ones on the shelves, and the cost of unsold copies doesn't have to factor into the price of the ones that are sold.

The public is mainly asking that the costs that don't exist for digital content be removed from digital pricing.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by dsvick

On the other hand, you could also argue that eBooks have more value and should cost more if for no other reason than the convenience of having them in an easy to transport, back up, and categorize form.

"Easy to back up" only applies if DRM is nonexistent.
"Easy to categorize" would apply if there were a standard naming convention for the files, or software that could sort them well. (I've yet to see ebook library software that I can treat like a physical bookshelf--setting my own categories, shifting books between them, and instantly able to view dozens at once, arranged in a way that makes it easy for me to find the one I want.)

Ebooks *can* be useful in a lot of ways that pbooks aren't, but a lot of publishers want to block every use other than portable reading.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

"Easy to back up" only applies if DRM is nonexistent.

It can still be easy to back up if DRM is tied to an account rather than device. Like iTunes music back in the day. You could copy your files and put them on up to five iPods/computers tied to your account, and could deregister a device you no longer used etc. to free up another machine.

Not as easy as DRM free of course, but it wasn't a huge hassle to get your backed up songs onto a new machine tied to your iTunes account etc.

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The public is mainly asking that the costs that don't exist for digital content be removed from digital pricing.

I do agree with that. I don't think e-books need to cost the same as the current paper book. But I do think tiered pricing is ok. They shouldn't have to sell the e-book for WAY below the hardcover and cannibalize hardcover sales, just like they don't have to put out a cheaper paper back the same day as the hardcover.

The e-book should be cheaper than the hardcover when it comes out. And when the paperback comes out, the e-book price should drop to be cheaper than the paper back.

Though I'm personally perfectly fine paying the same price as the paper back, which has been the case with most of the older books I've bought from the Kindle store--they tend to be the exact same price as the mass market paperback on Amazon.

Paperback or e-book, it's getting read once and not touched again, so the value is the same to me personally either way as DRM doesn't really matter in that case for me.

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

It can still be easy to back up if DRM is tied to an account rather than device. Like iTunes music back in the day. You could copy your files and put them on up to five iPods/computers tied to your account, and could deregister a device you no longer used etc. to free up another machine.

Not as easy as DRM free of course, but it wasn't a huge hassle to get your backed up songs onto a new machine tied to your iTunes account etc.

That's true in theory, but in practice, if I want to access a book that I haven't looked at for 10 years, it's no problem, but if I want to use the IT that I was using 10 years ago, it is a problem. Even if the data was in an unusual format, if there is no DRM it is typically easy to find a tool to sort it out. If there is DRM (or other security), it is often not worth the hassle.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

That's true in theory, but in practice, if I want to access a book that I haven't looked at for 10 years, it's no problem, but if I want to use the IT that I was using 10 years ago, it is a problem. Even if the data was in an unusual format, if there is no DRM it is typically easy to find a tool to sort it out. If there is DRM (or other security), it is often not worth the hassle.

Agreed, that's the problem--you're still screwed if the company goes under and there are no devices/programs to access that DRMd material you have backed up. And that's why I just stick to e-books for casual reading of books I'd only read once. And buy hardcovers or paper backs of books I need around indefinitely--i.e. stuff related to my research etc.

I'm not lover of DRM, despite being a huge supporter of protecting intellectually property and copyrights) it's a hassle to legit users and not even a speed bump to pirates.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

With a standard 30-40% return-and-pulp rate for pbooks, how can that be?

Before I answer that, a quick disclaimer: I don't work for a publisher or retailer, so I don't have precise figures.

That said, my best understanding is as follows. In the standard model, the cover price for a typical hardback is $25-30. The retailer buys their copies at about half that cost, and prices it as they see fit. They can sell it for above or below their costs, and return copies with no real penalty; AFAIK the typical retail price is closer to $15-18. The author's royalty is based off the cover price, not the actual price the retailer sells at. In addition, the paper costs of a book are only 15% or so of the total costs. I assume this includes returns, but if it doesn't then with a 50% return rate, paper costs are still around 22% or so.

Ebook readers presumably loathe the idea of spending more than $10 for any ebook, even a brand-new one. (That may not end up being the case, if the agency model genuinely engages in dynamic pricing, and visibly lowers cost as books age.) If that's the case, then the public want publishers to cut their prices by 50-66% -- though to the consumer this looks more like a 30% cut.

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The public is mainly asking that the costs that don't exist for digital content be removed from digital pricing.

Well, sort of.

The public has little concept of the actual cost of the paper portion, and their perception is (as far as I can tell) wildly inflated. It doesn't help that publishers essentially foster this illusion by charging significantly more for hardcovers than paperback; however, I'm quite confident that it does not cost 2x or 3x as much to print a hardcover as it does a softcover. This is why the hardcovers are "high margin" sales.

I.e. the actual costs of a book are the elements that people don't consider, are not aware of, and/or do not value: advances, editing, retailing, overhead and so forth.

And again, in a few years the idea of basing prices relative to paper costs will be largely moot, as paper gets sidelined.

[dmaul1114]

Yeah, I'd love to see how much it costs to print, ship etc. hardcover and paperback books--especially best sellers.

I'd be amazed if people weren't grossly overestimating how much that costs per copy when thinking of how much e-books should be cheaper due to not having those costs. I'd be shocked if it was more than a $1-2 a copy for bestsellers, and a bit higher for smaller run books. But I'd love to see the real numbers to know for sure.

[Teddman]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

And again, in a few years the idea of basing prices relative to paper costs will be largely moot, as paper gets sidelined.

I think you're being a little optimistic; it's going to take a decade or more before ebooks are dominant over hardcopies.

Take a look at the music industry: despite the wild popularity of iTunes and iPods, CD sales are still something like a 3:1 ratio to digital sales for most albums.

It's going to take a lot longer than a few years for paper books to disappear..