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Old 02-24-2010, 11:07 AM   #136
John F
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Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post
...

With e-books, you can copy the DRM'd file to your computer, flash drive etc. without cracking the DRM, so you can make a back up copy which can be put back on the device it's tied to and read in the future.

...
Just as an aside.

I had an opposite experience. I have a Sony 505. I bought a DRMd book (LRX). I had it backed up. Sony support had me reset my device (I was having some problems with their software). I copied the file back to my 505. Now, I cannot read the book on the device. Sony is fine with my inability to read the book. The device and the book were purchased within the past year.
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:38 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by PKFFW View Post
And unless something beyond the DRM itself changes, the backup of the DRM file will be able to be restored later.

It is only if something else changes(the four points I listed in my previous post are some examples) that the data will then become "wasted space".

Hence, technically speaking, it is not the DRM itself that renders the data useless but a combination of circumstances.

Cheers,
PKFFW
So let's say you bought an ereader (.pdb) ebook from eReader.com using an older credit card which you have subsequently cancelled - and you changed your CC number with eReader and Fictionwise. No problem yes? Now let's say that you've upgraded your computer system, losing the original ebook file, and eReader goes down due to poor business practices. Now you've lost your copy of eReader's software when you upgraded your computer. And there's now NO WAY to recover the 'backed up' ebook - short of running some sort of DRM removal software against it. That is *IF* you remembered to jot down your old CC number so you can use it with the software to strip the DRM.

Things like this happen all the time, yet you insist that we shouldn't consider the ability to recover from these problems as a 'backup' issue. Why?

Derek
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:01 PM   #138
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Sony is fine with my inability to read the book. The device and the book were purchased within the past year.
By fine with it, do you mean you called them up and tried to see if you could get the book sent to your account again?
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:10 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
It's not me that is misunderstanding, the term backup means just that and nothing else.
So there is an objective meaning for terms defined by what? You? Holy writ? The Great Wikipedia says of back-up
Quote:
In information technology, a backup or the process of backing up refers to making copies of data so that these additional copies may be used to restore the original after a data loss event.
(my emphasis)
Backing up is not about making a copy. It's about making a copy so that you can restore data.
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I give up. You clearly just want to argue as has been demonstrated in numerous threads so I will henceforth not bother to even attempt to discuss anything with you.
This is my third post on the subject. You have posted eight. I have addressed your contentions point-for-pont, while you have said "sheesh" and then run away.

I disagree with you about this, and about some other matters on other threads, but I have never (unlike some poeple) resorted to name calling. Even when it could have been funny, which was perhaps a mistake.
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:51 PM   #140
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It's really quite simple. Quit trying to make it more complex and quit just friggin arguing. What is it about some people that brings this out? Sheesh!
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:11 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post
By fine with it, do you mean you called them up and tried to see if you could get the book sent to your account again?
I was able to open LRX files. LRX/lrf is my prefered format, and I purchased them thru the Sony store. I have all these files backuped up, and there are additional copies in the Sony library. I was on the phone with tech support working on a problem. Tech support had me reboot/reset the device. After the reset, I put some LRX files back on the 505. None can be read on the 505. For some of the files, there was no alternative file to download. Tech support said being unable to open LRX files was expected behaviour and an epub should be available shortly. I did not really want epub. I prefer LRX. In my opinion, I purchased LRX files, and that is what I expect to get/use.


I'm just saying that the simple statement that you can "backup" DRM files with no worries is disingenuous.
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:17 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by MovieBird View Post

Yep, saw that one, that must be it!
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:23 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by John F View Post
I'm just saying that the simple statement that you can "backup" DRM files with no worries is disingenuous.
I didn't say it was worry free, just that it usually can be done with some unfortunate limitations--as long as you're putting it back on the same device/account.

Hopefully that's something that will improve going forward if we don't get a DRM free e-book world in the near future.

Anyway, I was just curious of Sony had told you "tough luck, rebuy the files" or if it was a technical issue. Looks like you'll at least be able to get them back as ePub so you'll have access to the material. Sucks you can't get it in the original format you prefer though.
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:28 PM   #144
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Hi KennyC and Everyone,

This discussion has been hilarious! All I can think of when reading it is that KennyC is the guy from Monty Python that gives out arguments for anyone wanting one, and the rest of us are horrified because all we are getting is "simple contradiction".

You gotta love it!
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:32 PM   #145
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Hi KennyC and Everyone,

This discussion has been hilarious! All I can think of when reading it is that KennyC is the guy from Monty Python that gives out arguments for anyone wanting one, and the rest of us are horrified because all we are getting is "simple contradiction".

You gotta love it!

You'll have to talk to Ben if you want to argue about it. At least Harry and I agree with the rest of the world.
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:52 PM   #146
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You'll have to talk to Ben if you want to argue about it. At least Harry and I agree with the rest of the world.
Make that rest of the world - 1. I'm with Ben.
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:59 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by delphidb96 View Post
Things like this happen all the time, yet you insist that we shouldn't consider the ability to recover from these problems as a 'backup' issue. Why?

Derek
Please quote where I stated that "we shouldn't consider the ability to recover from these problems as a 'backup' issue."

Oh, that's right, I didn't.

Cheers,
PKFFW
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Old 02-24-2010, 05:42 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by PKFFW View Post
Please quote where I stated that "we shouldn't consider the ability to recover from these problems as a 'backup' issue."

Oh, that's right, I didn't.

Cheers,
PKFFW
Oh I forgot to include you with Harry and I. Sorry.

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Old 02-24-2010, 06:33 PM   #149
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"Backing up is not about making a copy. It's about making a copy so that you can restore data."

And then the critical third step is being able to use the data. If you can't do all three steps (backup, restore, use) then the entire process is worthless. DRM (as used on ebooks) won't prevent you from doing the backup or the restore steps but it may prevent you from being able to use the data thus making the backup worthless.

So what was the point of all this debate again?
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Old 02-24-2010, 06:50 PM   #150
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Three lone voices crying out into the darkness of ignorance and neglect.
Three lone voices standing up for common usage
Three lone voices striving to make the world a better place...
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