Backlash against Author Douglas Preston

[fugazied]

His comments were out of line, but I don't know if I would go as far as publishing an inacurate review of his work, maybe a 'little' harsh.

It really does puzzle me why some authors come out on this siding with publishers and basically denigrating consumers as self-interested pigs rather than book readers who simply want to be able to afford more books and pay a reasonable price for a format that is INCREDIBLY cheap to reproduce and transmit as oppose to paperbacks with their associated costs.

Bottom line is that it is not unreasonable to expect e-books to be cheaper than paperbacks. It is not. Authors suggesting that it is, deserve what they get, and trust me it won't be pretty, book reading consumers aren't fools.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by fugazied

Bottom line is that it is not unreasonable to expect e-books to be cheaper than paperbacks. It is not. Authors suggesting that it is, deserve what they get, and trust me it won't be pretty, book reading consumers aren't fools.

But authors deserve to get paid for their work, and shouldn't see a cut in their salaries because of dropping prices.

Now if that means prices can be cheaper due to lower costs, and the authors still get their same cut (make the same dollar amount per copy sold), then that's fine. Lower the prices.

The problem is that's unlikely to happen as lower price per unit will be less money coming into publishers coffers, and they'll probably lower the cut authors (especially non-established authors with little negotiating power) get to try to keep their income streams up.

Example, to just make up numbers-- say currently a book sells for for $10. Say the Publisher gets $7 of that (70%) and the author $3 (30%). If the ebook version goes for $5 the publisher probably isn't going to take $2 so the author still gets $3 for the copy sold. They'll take their 70% (3.50) and the author will get his/her 30% which is $1.50--and all of a sudden their profit per book is down 50%. Before they got $3 per copy of their work sold, now they're getting $1.50.

So that's why I feel for authors. They're doing just as much work writing books as before, and have the very real threat of making less money for that work than before as we go to digital content and people expect to pay less than they do for physical versions of the SAME content--not to mention much greater piracy costing sales.

But most people don't care about the authors and only care about saving money on their end, and feel e-books aren't "worth" as much as physical books. Which I can see as many see spending the money as paying to own something tangible, vs. paying to enjoy the content (like you would with a $12 movie ticket etc.). And as much as that needs to change for digital content to not be a huge negative for produces of books, music, movies etc., I don't think it will.

So again, I'm glad I'm not a creative person, as this digital revolution would be scary to someone who's career was generating such content and getting people to pay a fair price for it to make a living on, and become rich if you have the talent.

[rmm200]

What offends me is the publishers taking 99 percent of the profits for what they consider "their intellectual property" while the authors starve.

With EBooks I hope a lot more authors jump into self publishing. If nothing else that will force the Macmillans of the world to share more of the largess with their captive writers.

Robert

[Teddman]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

But authors deserve to get paid for their work, and shouldn't see a cut in their salaries because of dropping prices.

Why not?

What is different about Preston advocating charging readers serveral dollars more for his books (as he did in the interview quote), and readers advocating the opposite (such as the Amazon "one star brigade")?

Both sides are trying to squeeze out a few bucks on their end.

[hidari]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

But authors deserve to get paid for their work, and shouldn't see a cut in their salaries because of dropping prices.

So that's why I feel for authors. They're doing just as much work writing books as before, and have the very real threat of making less money for that work than before as we go to digital content and people expect to pay less than they do for physical versions of the SAME content--not to mention much greater piracy costing sales.

But most people don't care about the authors and only care about saving money on their end, and feel e-books aren't "worth" as much as physical books. Which I can see as many see spending the money as paying to own something tangible, vs. paying to enjoy the content (like you would with a $12 movie ticket etc.). And as much as that needs to change for digital content to not be a huge negative for produces of books, music, movies etc., I don't think it will.
.

Have to cordially disagree. Making money as an author is a privilege. If the market changes then the writer will have to make a career change. It is that simple. I have read books by writers from Africa and Asia who are not making a living only by writing. They are teaching, editing... etc... I don't hear them complaining about how they won't be able to make their ??k per year from writing books to make a living. They get another job. They work in more than one field. Not that complex. Many authors have written books over the last 2000 years and had full time jobs. I imagine only 5% of the writing market makes a healthy living off of writing anyways.

Culture and writing will not die. There was plenty of writing before the Industrial Revolution and there will be plenty into the Digital Age. How about a writer writing a good book for the book itself instead of for profit?

Writers should be happy to even have a job at what they do. Look at Cory Doctorow or Steve Jordan for inspiration. They don't complain about the new paradigm; they have embraced it. Adapt or die. The music industry had to learn. The authors in the publishing industry have choices. If they chose not to adapt they will lose their jobs. Such is life.

[dmaul1114]

That's fine to have that view. I can't wait to hear the whining if some people's favorite successful authors who are set financially just stay screw it and retire early as they can't make as much as they used to for the same amount of work.

Just seems an odd attitude to be so callous toward authors--I get the hate toward publishers, but not authors.

Would anyone saying what you said above be fine if something happened in your field and all of a sudden you started getting paid less for doing the same amount of work you were doing before?

I doubt it. Most all of us would be bitching just like authors are about taking a pay cut while doing the same work. If you can say that about authors, I hope you don't bitch at all when your field changes, and you just suck it up and get a 2nd job like you suggest they do.

And if you think they should just write for the good of literature rather than to make money, you better damn well have some low paying non-profit/volunteer job rather than be working to make money for yourself as your main goal.

I think a lot of these types of attitudes is just sour grapes from people who hate their jobs (or are unemployed etc.) who think authors are lucky for getting paid to do something they don't really consider work, while their stuck in some crappy job because they weren't blessed with talent etc.

They don't view authorship as work, think people should write for the good of the field and sell their work as cheaply as possible etc. as they're stuck slaving away at some crummy, low paying job they hate as they weren't blessed with talent, or didn't get the education to get a good job etc.

That and just selfishness of people only caring about their own bottom line etc. and all the rest is just excuses for why they think books should be cheap.

[hidari]

Just a view. Sour grapes? mmm. If an author has talent he will make a decent living. quite a few do. If my job ends. Yes, I will need to change career. Such is life. I think paying the authors directly is the long term answer via ebooks. I know several Russian friends who had their careers forcibly changed due to economic factors. No, They did not like it, but they are still working and making a living. anyways. Seems you did not like my view point and may want to get personal about it. Oh, by the way, I am happy in my job. Looks like you are the only one with talent and have the only right view. Good luck with it.

[Ben Thornton]

I wonder whether, on balance, the digital world will be worse for those wishing to create. Balancing an expectation of a lower price and the dangers of the high seas, the digital world opens up a massive global market that can be easily searched etc. Cost of entry is much lower, and artists can market their work more directly, relying on fewer middle-men (if any) between them and their customers.

So, I think that it's too early to say that artists will suffer. Massively successful authors may make less, but a large number of authors may be able to make some money, have some success, where before they would simply not have been published.

[daffy4u]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

I wouldn't mind it so much if they'd release the ebook on the same day as the hardback, even at the hardback price....and then take the ebook price down with the paperback release. What I hate is not being able to get the ebook AT ALL, if it's delayed. Some authors I like enough to pay hardback prices for ebooks just to get it faster. (For example, I paid over $21.00 last year for Dana Stabenow's Whisper to the Blood in ebook on the same day the hardback was released).
Another pet peeve is things that have been out in paperback since oh, say, 2004, and they're still charging $17.00 for the ebook.

I HATE that idea. I am NOT going to pay hardcover price for an ebook no matter when it is released. No, a thousand times no!

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by hidari

Just a view. Sour grapes? mmm. If an author has talent he will make a decent living. quite a few do. If my job ends. Yes, I will need to change career. Such is life. I think paying the authors directly is the long term answer via ebooks. I know several Russian friends who had their careers forcibly changed due to economic factors. No, They did not like it, but they are still working and making a living. anyways. Seems you did not like my view point and may want to get personal about it. Oh, by the way, I am happy in my job. Looks like you are the only one with talent and have the only right view. Good luck with it.

No, I don't mean to get personal, just having a discussion.

Too many people can callously say "Authors should just suck it up and take less money than they made in the past" or "Authors should write for the good of literature, not to make a profit" etc. while they're own lives are focused on making and saving as much money as they can. So it ends up coming off as hypocritical to expect authors to be selfless.

I do agree that the answer is to eventually cut out the middleman and do away with publishers. Authors can just sell e-books themselves, hire marketing firms once they have some success etc. and have more freedom in setting prices, not having publishers take a big chunk of sales etc.

And no, I hardly have talent! At least not when it comes to creativity. Which is why I respect authors with talent, and musicians, movie directors etc. and strongly support their right to get paid fairly for their work.

I have no sense of entitlement that e-books should be cheaper than print etc., that MP3 albums should cost less than CDs etc. I'm paying to enjoy the work, and the experience is the same regardless of whether it's a physical product or a digital one--so the value is the same. I pay what I feel an e-book is worth to me, and if it costs more I don't buy it. Just like I do with physical books etc.

Any rate, I apologize if you took my post as insulting etc. Just expressing my strong views on the topic, with some annoyance at the sense of entitlement many have about artists, musicians etc. which is often hypocritical when they themselves are doing all they can in their own lives to maximize profits.

But of course, I forget not everyone on here is American, so not everyone is as focused on profit in our own lives as us Americans are ingrained to be!

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

I wonder whether, on balance, the digital world will be worse for those wishing to create. Balancing an expectation of a lower price and the dangers of the high seas, the digital world opens up a massive global market that can be easily searched etc. Cost of entry is much lower, and artists can market their work more directly, relying on fewer middle-men (if any) between them and their customers.

So, I think that it's too early to say that artists will suffer. Massively successful authors may make less, but a large number of authors may be able to make some money, have some success, where before they would simply not have been published.

It's too early to say for sure, as we have to see how the market changes, whether publishers/labels etc. stay around and keep taking such large cuts of sales, whether laws change to handle theft of digital books, albums etc. to fight piracy.

But I'd be very worried if I was a successful author, musician etc. in today's world. It's great for up and coming people who can get their material into consumers hands where as they couldn't before the internet age.

But it's nothing but a threat to profits for those who already mainstream successes.

Originally Posted by daffy4u

I HATE that idea. I am NOT going to pay hardcover price for an ebook no matter when it is released. No, a thousand times no!

Then you wait a few months for the e-book price to drop when the paperback comes out. Just like you waited for the paperback if you wanted the book cheaper back before e-books.

[Scott Nicholson]

The major problem for authors right now is they are being held hostage by the publishers, getting 15 percent royalty on an ebook. So of course they would rather get 15 percent of the $25 hardcover than 15 percent of the $10 ebook.

But the truth is they are the content creators and owners, and they should be getting at least 50 percent of their ebook profits. But right now pretty much every paper deal locks them into that paltry ebook royalty rate for a long, long time, maybe for the entire life of copyright, because there's no reason for an ebook to ever go out of print.

The authors are really caught right now, and under this muggery they are pretty much forced to side with publishers and hope paper books dominate the market. Unfortunately for them, if they have signed away most of their entire catalog for these low royalty rates, when ebooks drop down to their natural price (I can't see it staying more than $4.95 for long), they will be getting peanuts while the publishers are still raking it in. Even if paper books fade fast in the next five years, savvy publishers have been hoarding electronic rights since the turn of the century and stand to make out pretty good regardless.

The authors aren't talking about it, and their agents sure aren't going to look out for them...especially when that author can bypass both publisher and agent and get 70 percent from Amazon. It will be a very interesting summer when that rate kicks in.

Scott Nicholson
The Skull Ring and The Red Church

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Scott Nicholson

The major problem for authors right now is they are being held hostage by the publishers, getting 15 percent royalty on an ebook. So of course they would rather get 15 percent of the $25 hardcover than 15 percent of the $10 ebook.

But the truth is they are the content creators and owners, and they should be getting at least 50 percent of their ebook profits. But right now pretty much every paper deal locks them into that paltry ebook royalty rate for a long, long time, maybe for the entire life of copyright, because there's no reason for an ebook to ever go out of print.

Agree. And us as consumers shouldn't be taking it out on authors, but rather on the publishers who are causing the problem--and who are becoming less needed as we move to a digital era and the need to make and distribute physical property shrinks as time goes on.

So I find it very lame to give low reviews when an author complains about consumers not wanting to pay a price that gives him his fair share. Or suggest that authors should just smile and happily take less money for the same amount of work. Or argue that they should write for the good of literature and not for profit etc.

Bitch about the publishers who are driving prices up for US and screwing authors out of fair pay for their work.

Don't take it out on the authors, even when they put their foot in their mouths a bit sometimes. It's a stressful time to be someone trying to make it as an author with publishers screwing them as always, ebooks lowering price per book and raising piracy etc.

[nomesque]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

But I'd be very worried if I was a successful author, musician etc. in today's world. It's great for up and coming people who can get their material into consumers hands where as they couldn't before the internet age.

But it's nothing but a threat to profits for those who already mainstream successes.

If I were a popular mainstream author right now, I would be cackling with GLEE. I'd have my reader base set, my old market still available to me, far greater share of the profits, and the ability to control my ebook product like never before. And I could turn all those old manuscripts that publishers rejected into ebooks and make some money off them, too! Party time or WHAT?

OK, so I'm sure it's not quite that easy for many, given multi-book contracts and the like. But still... talk about open possibilities...!!

[hidari]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

So I find it very lame to give low reviews when an author complains about consumers not wanting to pay a price that gives him his fair share. Or suggest that authors should just smile and happily take less money for the same amount of work. Or argue that they should write for the good of literature and not for profit etc.

Bitch about the publishers who are driving prices up for US and screwing authors out of fair pay for their work.

Have to agree here. The publishers definitely do not help the Digital transformation that is happening....They seem to mostly hinder it. Yes, giving low reviews is cheap on the part of the consumer just because the author states a view contrary to another personal view.

I wish many authors would make a good living on ebooks. I think Ben Thorton made a good point, the digital age could bring more talent to the pool not less. However, it reminds me of quote "You know the quote where they say if you can get 50,000 monkeys with typewriters to type, they would eventually write the works of Shakespeare: The internet proved them wrong." a paraphrased quote more or less.

NO apology necessary. I am enjoying the thread. Trust me, my views on Tolkien, Fantasy, and pulp fiction are enough to drive MR posters ballistic... so this is a friendly chat.

At least this thread has yet to hit the dark net or copyright infringement debate.... or have I spoken too soon?