What are your views on illegal copying? - Page 11

Solicitous · 02-20-2010, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsvick

You can't, Ben clearly had the idea first and you going off and creating a bumper sticker of said intellectual idea is clearly an illegal act that is morally and ethically reprehensible as well as stealing food from Ben, his children, their children, and the small goat on the hill as well. My god man, have you learned nothing from this thread?

Ah Ben may have had the 'idea' first but Steve has a patent on bumper stickers with a satirical phrase.

Kevin2960 · 02-20-2010, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

I put those options in to gauge opinion, and you'll be glaad to see that >90% of people (including me) agree with this.

Oh Ben such sweeping statements, I thought you liked FACTS, not fantasy, I don't think 90% of people out there believe in breaking the law just because they WANT to !

Morrile · 02-20-2010, 04:22 AM

Hello,

IMO copying a book; which you have purchased, for personal use is not illegal, as it's much like creating backups for data, films music, etc.

If you was planning to deprive the author of royalties or sell the book for personal financial gain, then yes it is illegal.

Morrile

TGS · 02-20-2010, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazbates

3 Points:
Constantly blaming the rich and big corporations for the woes of the world is just too easy.

It might be too easy - although the parlous state of the the left in Europe and the USA at the moment suggests otherwise - but it might also be true that the rich and big corporations are responsible for, at least some of, the woes of the world.

mgmueller · 02-20-2010, 06:20 AM

I have no moral inhibitions. But I care about quality. So when I'm interested in a book, I try to purchase it. Disappointing enough, even legally purchased books sometimes are of horrible quality, especially concerning metadata - but sometimes formatting as well. And on the other hand, sometimes books from the dark net are simply phantastic. But still my rule of thumb is:
If I want, I buy it.
If I can't get it legally, but want to read it, I try to get it elsewhere.
Perfect example: Lord of the Rings. Had them as scanned PDFs, bought them as soon as they've been available. Harry Potter still isn't available...

HarryT · 02-20-2010, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morrile

Hello,

IMO copying a book; which you have purchased, for personal use is not illegal, as it's much like creating backups for data, films music, etc.

I'm afraid that, your personal opinion to the contrary, it unquestionably is illegal in the UK at the present time, just as all other kinds of "format shifting" are. Nobody is ever prosecuted for it (and, indeed, there would be no reason to do so), and I don't think that many people would regard it as "wrong", but I'm afraid that there's absolutely no question that it is illegal.

Ben Thornton · 02-20-2010, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin2960

Oh Ben such sweeping statements, I thought you liked FACTS, not fantasy, I don't think 90% of people out there believe in breaking the law just because they WANT to !

You have misread my post.

I was responding to a comment that it was wrong to copy content just because it came from a big corporation etc., agreeing with it, and pointing out that of those polled, 90% also agreed.

Sparrow · 02-20-2010, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm afraid that, your personal opinion to the contrary, it unquestionably is illegal in the UK at the present time, just as all other kinds of "format shifting" are. Nobody is ever prosecuted for it (and, indeed, there would be no reason to do so), and I don't think that many people would regard it as "wrong", but I'm afraid that there's absolutely no question that it is illegal.

I wouldn't go so far as to say 'absolutely no question'; since there some exceptions when I believe you can purchase and copy a book legally.

HarryT · 02-20-2010, 06:48 AM

OK, yes, there are exceptions, such as the work being in the public domain.

Pardoz · 02-20-2010, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

Hey You forgot that one (or maybe two) wacko(s) that thinks copying is theft!

Yes, but I'm sure that they'll calm down once the new meds kick in...

pietvo · 02-20-2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morrile

Hello,

IMO copying a book; which you have purchased, for personal use is not illegal, as it's much like creating backups for data, films music, etc.

If you was planning to deprive the author of royalties or sell the book for personal financial gain, then yes it is illegal.

Morrile

It just depends on what the law in your country says, that's the definition of (il)legal.

Kevin2960 · 02-20-2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pardoz

Yes, but I'm sure that they'll calm down once the new meds kick in...

I doubt I will, my meds clicked in long ago ....... Oh and I was one of the men in white coats, so know what meds I need to keep my Mania in check, LOL

kennyc · 02-20-2010, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin2960

I doubt I will, my meds clicked in long ago ....... Oh and I was one of the men in white coats, so know what meds I need to keep my Mania in check, LOL

kazbates · 02-20-2010, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGS

It might be too easy - although the parlous state of the the left in Europe and the USA at the moment suggests otherwise - but it might also be true that the rich and big corporations are responsible for, at least some of, the woes of the world.

And the same can be said for the other end of the spectrum. We put an enormous amount of tax dollars into the welfare system in this country. Some of that money goes towards people who are generally in need, but a lot does not. The abuse of that system adds to the woes of this country.

I've met wealthy people on the other hand, who work very hard and sacrifice much for their wealth. Frankly, I wouldn't want what they have if I have to sacrifice as much as they did. I think my problem with the original statement of the "rich and big corporations" is that it is too general. There are good and bad in all situations.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit since I first saw the statement and I have a question, "Why do people who pirate books feel that it is within your "right" to do so?" Why do you believe that you are so deserving of something that you take it without giving compensation to the true owners? I cannot see how you can justify it and NOT consider it stealing. Whether you like to admit it or not, whether you are taking something physically, digitally, or even intellectually, you are still taking something that does not belong to you and for which you do not have permission to own nor did you give compensation to the original owner.

When I walk with my daughter through Walmart and she sees a small toy that she wants, I don't tell her that it's okay to take it because Walmart is a "Big, Rich Corporation" who preys on the masses so it's within our rights as the downtrodden masses to "take" that toy without compensating that greedy company. If I did that, my 8 year old daughter would turn to me and say, "But mommy, that's stealing and stealing is wrong."

Whether or not you agree with the morality of it, you must live within the laws of the country where you reside. You may not like the terms "thief" or "stealing" but they are appropriate. Justifying breaking a law because it doesn't really work for you or limits the way you can live your life is juvenile. If you don't like the laws, work to change them.

By the way, I say all this but am hardly perfect and have already stated that I drive 4 miles over the speed limit (only on highways) because I know I can get away with it. I'm not excusing my behavior. It's wrong and I know it. I'm not trying to justify my illegal actions either. If a policeman is having a bad day and decides to pull me over for going 4 miles over the speed limit, it is perfectly within his rights to do so and I deserve the consequences.

Sparrow · 02-20-2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazbates

When I walk with my daughter through Walmart and she sees a small toy that she wants, I don't tell her that it's okay to take it because Walmart is a "Big, Rich Corporation" who preys on the masses so it's within our rights as the downtrodden masses to "take" that toy without compensating that greedy company. If I did that, my 8 year old daughter would turn to me and say, "But mommy, that's stealing and stealing is wrong."

In the UK it's quite common these days to see parents giving their children food off the shelves in supermarkets without paying for it. The children eat the stuff as they wander round, and the supermarkets don't seem to care.

'Stealing' is a part of our culture now.

View Poll Results: What are your views on illegal copying?
All illegal copying of books is wrong	43	13.78%
It's OK to copy a book that is Public Domain in a different country	134	42.95%
It's OK to copy a book if I bought it new in print (I've paid the author)	172	55.13%
It's OK to copy a book if I own it in print (I own a paid-up copy)	181	58.01%
It's OK to copy a book that is not published electronically (I can't buy it)	126	40.38%
It's OK to copy a book that is not published in my country (I can't buy it here)	125	40.06%
It's OK to copy a book if the author is dead	79	25.32%
It's OK to copy a book if I think that the author is rich	19	6.09%
It's OK to copy a book from mainstream publishers	17	5.45%
It's always OK to copy (information wants to be free)	61	19.55%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 312. You may not vote on this poll

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02-20-2010, 04:22 AM	#153
Morrile Member Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: UK Device: None	Hello, IMO copying a book; which you have purchased, for personal use is not illegal, as it's much like creating backups for data, films music, etc. If you was planning to deprive the author of royalties or sell the book for personal financial gain, then yes it is illegal. Morrile

02-20-2010, 06:20 AM	#155
mgmueller Member Retired Posts: 3,308 Karma: 13024950 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Augsburg (near Munich), Germany Device: 26 Readers, 44 Tablets	I have no moral inhibitions. But I care about quality. So when I'm interested in a book, I try to purchase it. Disappointing enough, even legally purchased books sometimes are of horrible quality, especially concerning metadata - but sometimes formatting as well. And on the other hand, sometimes books from the dark net are simply phantastic. But still my rule of thumb is: If I want, I buy it. If I can't get it legally, but want to read it, I try to get it elsewhere. Perfect example: Lord of the Rings. Had them as scanned PDFs, bought them as soon as they've been available. Harry Potter still isn't available...

02-20-2010, 06:48 AM	#159
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,557 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	OK, yes, there are exceptions, such as the work being in the public domain.