The Vent and Rant Thread

[montsnmags]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

ROFLMAO!!! Yes, Chris knows, and Adrian..well, who knows what Adrian really knows?

Adrian knows he always gets paid. He has a rather thorough and effective Collections Agency:

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

That was my suggestion a decade ago, when only the rabid GM fans had already seen the writing on the wall. GM started as a collection of independents, and if they'd retained that model instead of going off the cliff in Roger Smith's '82 Citation in pursuit of market share, they wouldn't be in the situation they're in now.

It goes back much farther than that. Read _My "Years with General Motors_, by Alfred Pritchard Sloan_ sometime. Slaon was CEO during GM's formative years when it was in the process of becoming the largest automaker in the world. He tells one story about touring the dealerships during the Depression and seeing the number of unsold cars on dealer's lots, returning to HQ, and giving one of the few direct orders he issued as CEO: the the divisions would cut production. The divisions recorded it as a sale when a car was shipped to a dealer. Sloan recognized the vital role of the dealer, and the long term harm to GM if dealers failed due to GM stuoidity.

The process that had created GM by aggregation began earlier than Sloan, and had it's roots in need for economies of scale. Automaking is capital intensive, and you need to produce and sell a large number of vehicles to survive. I was in a discussion elsewhere a while back about the viability of cars purpose built to be taxicabs. One of the participants was an engineer at GM (these days, he works for an offshore equipment company in TX). He laughed aloud at the numbers required for say, New York City, which has about 12,000 "medallion" cans on the streets. GM would need a potential market at least ten times that to make the concept worth pursuing.

(The last dedicated cab maker was Checker Motors, but they were essentially a custom coach builder. They made the bodies. They bought chassis, engines, and running gear from Chevrolet.)

There are smaller, nimbler companies making cars for smaller markets, but they tend to be luxury and specialty vehicles with price tags to match. They have to charge a lot per vehicle to cover the costs.

Adapt or die, just like the company they were foolish enough to think was "too big to fail" must now adapt or die. Community college and online school enrollment has swelled tremendously over the last few years for a reason. A displaced worker can either learn something new (often on the state's dime) or spend the next 2 years dialing-for-dollars and blaming all their problems on Obama/the unions/corporate America/the Cubs/global warming.

"It's not that simple", you might say...I can say from firsthand experience that it beats the hell out of the alternative.

It's not that simple. When a guy has spent the past 30 years doing rote assembly work on a production line, getting good money and great benefits as a result of UAW contracts, his flexibility tends to be, um, limited. Some of these folks will be candidates for retraining. Others simply won't be capable of the change. Their company goes belly up, and their jobs no longer exist. What happens to them? Let them die? I can't think of many governments, and especially not ours, that would consider that an acceptable option.

The underlying political question is what the government's responsibility should be in such cases. There's a German economist getting interest at the moment, because he's been exploring the underlying issues. Germany faces problems similar to the US - a manufacturing economy trying to survive when foreign competitors have far lower labor costs. They have heavy layoffs, and he's concluded that a lot of the displaced workers just won't get new jobs. New jobs may be created, but they won't be jobs the displaced worker can do, and may not be jobs the displaced worker can be taught to do.
______
Dennis

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

Man, it seems like every night now I'm getting fuzz in my eye. It's so annoying. This time I had to take my contacts out and finally after an hour of tearing up I was able to see it and get it out. Is it because I have a cat now?

it shouldn't be. check your bed linens to see if you are getting a buildup of fuzzies from that or maybe your towels. also make sure you are clearing your lint trap everytime

[nomesque]

*sigh* Late last year, I applied for a week of leave, just for relaxation purposes (and packing to move). As soon as I went on leave, my father had emergency heart surgery.

Did I learn my lesson? Hell no.

Last week, I asked work for a couple days' relaxation leave (to recover from moving). Annnnd... son in hospital 1.5 hours away, with appendicitus and possible complications (NOT anything too major, no stressing required).

So, off I go on my R&R/hospital visits...

[devilsadvocate]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

It's not that simple.

Told ya

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

When a guy has spent the past 30 years doing rote assembly work on a production line, getting good money and great benefits as a result of UAW contracts, his flexibility tends to be, um, limited. Some of these folks will be candidates for retraining. Others simply won't be capable of the change.

I think there's a lot more to be said for human resilience; how many of those workers of "limited flexibility" are confusing "can't" with "won't"?
Just as the IT workers who lost their jobs as a result of the dotcom bust at the end of the '90s had to suck it up and get a real education, so will many manufacturing workers (not just UAW members) have to learn a new skill. No one can tell me the UAW was completely oblivious to the dent Japan put into our manufacturing base in the '80s, much less not think it could happen again; to believe otherwise would be a scary kind of naïveté. What literate person didn't see this coming at some point?

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Their company goes belly up, and their jobs no longer exist. What happens to them? Let them die? I can't think of many governments, and especially not ours, that would consider that an acceptable option.

I didn't mean to literally let them starve. I also, however, don't think they deserve their own version of the VA.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The underlying political question is what the government's responsibility should be in such cases. There's a German economist getting interest at the moment, because he's been exploring the underlying issues. Germany faces problems similar to the US - a manufacturing economy trying to survive when foreign competitors have far lower labor costs. They have heavy layoffs, and he's concluded that a lot of the displaced workers just won't get new jobs. New jobs may be created, but they won't be jobs the displaced worker can do, and may not be jobs the displaced worker can be taught to do.

I'm all about protecting the rights of workers. A long time ago, that's what unions were for. I was with the Carpenters Local 790 for a time. Got laid off anyway, and it was the best thing to ever happen to me because it opened my eyes to the fact that there's no such thing as a recession-proof business. I didn't have the benefit of watching my union president making the Sunday-morning talk show rounds like the UAW did. You said yourself (and I agree) that GM's implosion was a long time in the making; while we're both intelligent, I've yet to be convinced that we were the only ones to have seen it coming.

There will be some people who won't (economically) survive the change. As I've said before, they can either learn how to do something new or they can draw whatever benefits they have coming to them and blame the rest of the world for their problems. In either case, the big fat union paychecks and benefits are gone, and they're not coming back. It's not the fault of the workers that GM execs got greedy, but it is, at least indirectly, their fault that the UAW got just as greedy. In life, one can be the ant or one can be the grasshopper.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by nomesque

*sigh* Late last year, I applied for a week of leave, just for relaxation purposes (and packing to move). As soon as I went on leave, my father had emergency heart surgery.

Did I learn my lesson? Hell no.

Last week, I asked work for a couple days' relaxation leave (to recover from moving). Annnnd... son in hospital 1.5 hours away, with appendicitus and possible complications (NOT anything too major, no stressing required).

So, off I go on my R&R/hospital visits...

but you are, aren't you ....

take care ....

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by nomesque

*sigh* Late last year, I applied for a week of leave, just for relaxation purposes (and packing to move). As soon as I went on leave, my father had emergency heart surgery.

Did I learn my lesson? Hell no.

Last week, I asked work for a couple days' relaxation leave (to recover from moving). Annnnd... son in hospital 1.5 hours away, with appendicitus and possible complications (NOT anything too major, no stressing required).

So, off I go on my R&R/hospital visits...

Dang! That sucks. I took last Friday off and then got called in on Sunday! Which I refused to do but got all worked up over it and ruined my own weekend.

Hope your son is better!

[Lady Blue]

Originally Posted by LazyScot

I thought it was the shadow's evil twin's alter-ego's subconscious' pet marmoset who knew...

Yep. Definitely looks like he knows something.

Originally Posted by nomesque

*sigh* Late last year, I applied for a week of leave, just for relaxation purposes (and packing to move). As soon as I went on leave, my father had emergency heart surgery.

Did I learn my lesson? Hell no.

Last week, I asked work for a couple days' relaxation leave (to recover from moving). Annnnd... son in hospital 1.5 hours away, with appendicitus and possible complications (NOT anything too major, no stressing required).

So, off I go on my R&R/hospital visits...

I feel your pain, nomesque. I can definitely relate. The same kind of thing always seems to happen to me whenever I try to take a vacation day or two. Almost to the point where I feel that if I take any time off, I'll be the cause of someone's illness or injury and be doomed to tend to them as my punishment. Stressful and exhausting. Yeah, paranoia.

Do a lot of deep breathing and find something calm and soothing to do or listen to. Or if that doesn't relieve the stress, just let out a loud SCREAM. Whatever works.

Hope your father is well now and your son's recovery is without further problems.

[Katti's Cat]

I get really really cheesed off when playing backgammon online and the other player ups and leaves in the middle of the game cos he /she is LOSING.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Katti's Cat

I get really really cheesed off when playing backgammon online and the other player ups and leaves in the middle of the game cos he /she is LOSING.

Well, you won!!!

[Katti's Cat]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Well, you won!!!

Call me stoopid (and don't worry, you wouldn't be the first) but I rather have a good game I loose than one I win cos the other player left the game.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Katti's Cat

Call me stoopid (and don't worry, you wouldn't be the first) but I rather have a good game I loose than one I win cos the other player left the game.

I understand.....

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Katti's Cat

I get really really cheesed off when playing backgammon online and the other player ups and leaves in the middle of the game cos he /she is LOSING.

Did they leave or concede?

BOb

[Katti's Cat]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Did they leave or concede?

BOb

Left. Dam the exit buttons

[BookishDreamer]

I'm ready to scream. It's been almost 2 hours since I read the e-mail and I'm still furious. I've been working on a project to interface with an external organization. They've had some staff turnover and 2 weeks ago we discovered the first person we worked with gave us the wrong flat file layout and the second person didn't realize it until recently. So my programmers had to start over. I sent the new design specifications to the external organization for review and everything seemed right. Earlier this week I uploaded our generated flat file to the external organization's system. Got an error. External organization didn't have time to look at it until late yesterday. I got a response this morning. Apparently our file needs 2 more fields that we didn't even know were required! Shouldn't they have noticed this during the revised spec review?! And this was only the first of two flat files we have to upload to them. I can't even test the second file until the first one uploads successfully.

Dreamer