A second poll on ebooker views - Page 2

dsvick · 02-18-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

What surprised me was the near equal split in the DRM responses. For half of respondents DRM isn't an issue if it doesn't interfere with device portability, which means that DRM is less of an issue than most people would suppose based on discussions here on MR and elsewhere. I would have expected the no DRM response to have far outpaced all other offered options combined.

DRM can be removed. So some people may not even consider it an issue.

JoeD · 02-18-2010, 10:35 AM

The poll seems a little odd to me. If a book has the following restrictions

* Geographical
* DRM
* Price 9.99 or higher

Then the answer really depends on where you live. If you're outside the geographical region, then 100% should vote for that as if you can't buy it the price and DRM are irrelavent.

I would say the restictions would be ranked as

1) Geographic - if you can't buy it, the other two don't matter anyway
2) DRM - if you can't read it directly or remove the drm then price doesn't matter
3) Price - Individual preference as to what a suitable price may be

I can't see how there could be any other order, although the poll results may not agree as it's open to interpretation of the voter. Are they voting under the assumption 1 and 2 can always be worked around or voting with the view that you cannot work around them or shouldn't have to.

GntlmnBndt · 02-18-2010, 11:22 AM

Hmmm... I didn't actually vote, as most of the options did not match my own answers to a situation. For instance, if I faced a geo restriction which excluded me and a price higher than my own limit, but was only able to change one, a change would be pointless as I still wouldn't buy the book.

As for DRM, previously I would go with eReader DRM because it was widely available and not dependent on a server for unlocking. Now that they are in bed with Adobe, I find I no longer trust them on a gut level and the combined system makes it rather complicated as to what software/devices I will be able to use in the future, so have yet to buy any DRM protected books since. Before we get off topic, yes, I know DRM removal is an option, but if I have no intentions of abiding by the terms of sale, I cannot personally agree to them -- just a personal issue.

So, the survey options offered did not really fit for my buying habits. Always interesting to read them though, as I think the questions and options often say more than the results.

The Bandit

dsvick · 02-18-2010, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD

1) Geographic - if you can't buy it, the other two don't matter anyway
2) DRM - if you can't read it directly or remove the drm then price doesn't matter
3) Price - Individual preference as to what a suitable price may be

Geographic will either be the first, and only, consideration or not a concern at all. It will matter not at all if you live in the US, or matter 100% if you cant even get the book. After that though the other two are personal preference.

I think that the problem people have with DRM is not so much that it will not let you read the book, if you acquired it legally you should be able to read the book, assuming you got the correct format for your reader

. I think the concern most people have is that DRM limits what you can, legally, do with the book once you have purchased it. You can lend it to your mom, you can't resell it if you don't want to read it again, you can't even donate it to your library. And if for some reason that form of DRM stops being supported at some time in the future you may not even be able to read the book yourself again.

ficbot · 02-18-2010, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD

The poll seems a little odd to me. If a book has the following restrictions

* Geographical
* DRM
* Price 9.99 or higher

Then the answer really depends on where you live.

This is exactly the issue I had with the poll and I think it will really skew your results. I don't think you really understand the geographical issue and the polls are reflecting that. If you REALLY want to know whether price is more important than DRM or vice versa, that's a different poll than the one you made.

Fwiw, I suspect that a lot of people feel as I do, that if the geographical issue is taken care of, price is probably the next most important issue since most DRM can be removed and hence is less a deciding factor.

Pardoz · 02-18-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsvick

It will matter not at all if you live in the US, or matter 100% if you cant even get the book.

Geographical restrictions apply to people in the US too; they just tend to notice them less, as US readers tend to be less aware of non-US-published authors.

dmaul1114 · 02-18-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pardoz

Geographical restrictions apply to people in the US too; they just tend to notice them less, as US readers tend to be less aware of non-US-published authors.

Agreed. Outside of academic books which I don't get in e-book format anyway, I don't read much of anything by foreign authors beyond classic lit (which is freely available in the public domain), so it's a moot point for me.

tompe · 02-18-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

What surprised me was the near equal split in the DRM responses. For half of respondents DRM isn't an issue if it doesn't interfere with device portability, which means that DRM is less of an issue than most people would suppose based on discussions here on MR and elsewhere. I would have expected the no DRM response to have far outpaced all other offered options combined.

It is very unclear what device portability mean. Is that portability to all future devices or not? Was people thinking about a possible but not existing DRM scheme when answering the question?

I do not really think you can draw any conclusions from the poll since the questions was very badly formulated.

tompe · 02-18-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsvick

And if for some reason that form of DRM stops being supported at some time in the future you may not even be able to read the book yourself again.

Or you would not be able to read it for the first time. It seems common here that people have a to be read queue that is years in length.

alvico · 02-18-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petermillard

But with Geo Restrictions, that choice is taken away from me; I can't buy the ebook, no matter how much I'm prepared to pay.

That's it exactly!

GeoffC · 02-19-2010, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pardoz

Geographical restrictions apply to people in the US too; they just tend to notice them less, as US readers tend to be less aware of non-US-published authors.

but the effect of GR on the US readership is likely to be less than elsewhere in the world - hence the poll is likely to be skewed away from GR ? (or am I missing something - certainly I only use US sites - the UK is slow to start )

sabredog · 02-19-2010, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petermillard

But with Geo Restrictions, that choice is taken away from me; I can't buy the ebook, no matter how much I'm prepared to pay.

Absolutely! So the alternative if a work around fails is...

GeoffC · 02-19-2010, 11:09 AM

So there we go,

pbook : price $ 6.99
ebook : price $10.00

Published 2008 !

Advantage of the pbook. I can buy it from the states! (Okay, p&p will be a bit pricey!)

anappo · 02-19-2010, 01:37 PM

> For half of respondents DRM isn't an issue if it doesn't interfere with device portability

This is not a real choice. As I wrote in the poll comments, all crypto-based DRM is proprietary. It cannot be otherwise.

The more proprietary the DRM - the more problems with device portability. And conversely, the more device portability, the quicker that DRM is going to get hacked. In the end you can have one or the other. I suspect that half of respondents that you speak of may not realize this.

tompe · 02-19-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

So there we go,

pbook : price $ 6.99
ebook : price $10.00

Published 2008 !

Advantage of the pbook. I can buy it from the states! (Okay, p&p will be a bit pricey!)

Remember that ebooks have VAT which I assume you have included in the price.

02-18-2010, 10:35 AM	#17
JoeD Guru Posts: 895 Karma: 4383958 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: na	The poll seems a little odd to me. If a book has the following restrictions * Geographical * DRM * Price 9.99 or higher Then the answer really depends on where you live. If you're outside the geographical region, then 100% should vote for that as if you can't buy it the price and DRM are irrelavent. I would say the restictions would be ranked as 1) Geographic - if you can't buy it, the other two don't matter anyway 2) DRM - if you can't read it directly or remove the drm then price doesn't matter 3) Price - Individual preference as to what a suitable price may be I can't see how there could be any other order, although the poll results may not agree as it's open to interpretation of the voter. Are they voting under the assumption 1 and 2 can always be worked around or voting with the view that you cannot work around them or shouldn't have to. Last edited by JoeD; 02-18-2010 at 10:40 AM.

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02-18-2010, 11:22 AM	#18
GntlmnBndt Zealot Posts: 135 Karma: 142 Join Date: Jul 2008 Device: iPod Touch, iPad	Hmmm... I didn't actually vote, as most of the options did not match my own answers to a situation. For instance, if I faced a geo restriction which excluded me and a price higher than my own limit, but was only able to change one, a change would be pointless as I still wouldn't buy the book. As for DRM, previously I would go with eReader DRM because it was widely available and not dependent on a server for unlocking. Now that they are in bed with Adobe, I find I no longer trust them on a gut level and the combined system makes it rather complicated as to what software/devices I will be able to use in the future, so have yet to buy any DRM protected books since. Before we get off topic, yes, I know DRM removal is an option, but if I have no intentions of abiding by the terms of sale, I cannot personally agree to them -- just a personal issue. So, the survey options offered did not really fit for my buying habits. Always interesting to read them though, as I think the questions and options often say more than the results. The Bandit

02-19-2010, 11:09 AM	#28
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,599 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	So there we go, pbook : price $ 6.99 ebook : price $10.00 Published 2008 ! Advantage of the pbook. I can buy it from the states! (Okay, p&p will be a bit pricey!)

02-19-2010, 01:37 PM	#29
anappo Enthusiast Posts: 47 Karma: 247 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Tallinn, Estonia Device: Cybook Gen3	> For half of respondents DRM isn't an issue if it doesn't interfere with device portability This is not a real choice. As I wrote in the poll comments, all crypto-based DRM is proprietary. It cannot be otherwise. The more proprietary the DRM - the more problems with device portability. And conversely, the more device portability, the quicker that DRM is going to get hacked. In the end you can have one or the other. I suspect that half of respondents that you speak of may not realize this.