Change Your Mind (On the Reading of Junk)

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

...
I don't think fiction plays a large role in building intellect or knowledge. It may build vocabulary and verbal IQ, but that's only worth something if you use it to build your knowledge and intellect in other areas with factual information, science, theory etc. etc. etc.

As such I just think it silly for people like Hazlitt to be snooty about what fictional reading a person does. I care MUCH more about how their building their factual knowledge and developing their intellect.

Good fiction certainly plays a role in building both intellect and knowledge. It can provide a foundation,particularly in the early years, upon which one can build broader knowledge and understanding.

As with a lot of things, achieving a good balance may be the key. I don't think it is wise to dismiss the value of good literature, just as it would not be wise to dismiss the value of social sciences, because they are not "hard" science, like physics. Nor would it be wise to dismiss someone's interest in M-Theory, because it may be esoteric.

At the same time, I am puzzled by the need of so many to qualify their statements about "good" and "bad" literature, or art in general. Just like most things in life, all book are not equal.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

I don't think fiction plays a large role in building intellect or knowledge. It may build vocabulary and verbal IQ, but that's only worth something if you use it to build your knowledge and intellect in other areas with factual information, science, theory etc. etc. etc.

As such I just think it silly for people like Hazlitt to be snooty about what fictional reading a person does. I care MUCH more about how their building their factual knowledge and developing their intellect.

I can't agree. I find fiction can contain both factual knowledge as well as intellectual ideas - and may even be superiour in how it conveys all this information to the reader. Factual knowledge is certainly not limited to non-fiction, and ideas even less.

Actually, I think that sometimes the fiction author may convey the meaning of an idea, of some factual knowledge, a great deal better than the non-ficition writer. Sometimes, perhaps only the fiction-writer, the author, can truly relate the ideas.

Recently, I was very moved by the ideas in the short story "The machine stops" by E. M. Forster. These were ideas I've seen expressed before, but not quite this way. Forster "managed" to make me think quite differently about some things. Not through relation of fact, but through relation of ideas via an engaging narrative - a story. Fiction, not fact, made me think twice about reality.

I may have to go 'back' to fact to build upon that idea, but without fiction it would never had taken root in me.

[sianon]

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

More like: "stop reading and turn the light out"

Or in the words of my sixth grade teacher at paretn teacher interview, Mrs Lawes, I am so glad Karen enjoys reading so much, I just wish she would not rush through her work to get to the book shlef" Or the many times I had a flash light under the covers and would be sprung by my dad who was none to pleased to see me still awake and reading hours after I should have been sleeping

I read a wide range of material and gain enjoyment from most of it. Soem of the more challenign books I have read of late have been "the Child Thief" which is a very dark take on Peter Pan, The Lace Reader which tells a dark and treacherous tale that really makes you stop ans think about what we as adults do to children and The House in the Riddle by Liza Granville which again deals with the dark side of life and cuases a rethink of life (mm starting to see a bit of a them happening here".

When I was at Uni, I would submit my last assignment for the semester, then for the next week, would read nothing but cheap and dreadful romances as well as watching the Young and the restless and Days of Our Lives. The oputcome was that my brain quickly switched from academia to reast and relaxation mode.

When my son was 8 years of age, Pokemon became reallyt populour and he was forever wantign the latest Pokemon book. I was criticised by many other paretns for purchasing these so called "trashy books" for him, however until this point he always resisted reading as it was a very difficult task for him. However given he was always happy to read Pokemon, I fuigured this was the very best that I could give him to assit him in developing a love of reading. He is still a reluctant reader, but at least he did learn to read despite severe Dyslexia.

[Jellby]

Even the purest of fiction has some factual data: it tells what the author and society found worth writing or reading at the time and place it was written or published.

[kennyc]

I think there are many things to be learned from fiction. It's a different kind of learning. You learn about other people, they way they think and interact with others. You learn to see from other perspectives good, bad or different. It broadens your understanding of people and interactions. There is also much factual information that can be learned in passing, everything from the best type of pistol for a spy or sniper to how to ride the subway in NYC etc.

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by Sonist

At the same time, I am puzzled by the need of so many to qualify their statements about "good" and "bad" literature, or art in general. Just like most things in life, all book are not equal.

The reason that I've put scare quotes around "bad" books etc. is that, although I agree, of course, that all books are not equal, it's still the case that whether a book is "bad" is a matter of opinion - and circumstance. As others have stated, many books now considered classics have been looked down on as poor reading matter in the past. Also, as has been mentioned above, a Pokemon book might be perfectly good reading for some readers.

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by Ea

Actually, I think that sometimes the fiction author may convey the meaning of an idea, of some factual knowledge, a great deal better than the non-ficition writer. Sometimes, perhaps only the fiction-writer, the author, can truly relate the ideas.

Quite so. It is one thing to introduce an idea in the abstract - quite another to bring it alive through a story.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

The reason that I've put scare quotes around "bad" books etc. is that, although I agree, of course, that all books are not equal, it's still the case that whether a book is "bad" is a matter of opinion - and circumstance. As others have stated, many books now considered classics have been looked down on as poor reading matter in the past. Also, as has been mentioned above, a Pokemon book might be perfectly good reading for some readers.

And also, if someone enjoys reading a book, surely that's reason enough for it to exist. To pick a random example, a Mills and Boon (Harlequin to our American friends) romance may not have great literary merit, but if it gives pleasure to the reader, that's surely a reason to consider it a "good" book, is it not?

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Ea

I can't agree. I find fiction can contain both factual knowledge as well as intellectual ideas - and may even be superiour in how it conveys all this information to the reader. Factual knowledge is certainly not limited to non-fiction, and ideas even less.

Actually, I think that sometimes the fiction author may convey the meaning of an idea, of some factual knowledge, a great deal better than the non-ficition writer. Sometimes, perhaps only the fiction-writer, the author, can truly relate the ideas.

I don't mean to say that I see no value in reading fiction.

Just more that I don't think it compares with true learning from science, history, philosophy etc.

And as such, I'll never tell someone that only reads say romance or fantasy that they should quit rotting their brain and branch out in their reading etc.

That person may well have an intellectual job and be challenging themselves everyday, and just reading to unwind. And in that case I think they're bettering themselves more than someone who has a menial, non-intellectual job but reads "great" literature all the time.

The ideal is probably to have both an intellectual job and challenge yourself in your leisure reading, but not many of us have the energy left over after long days of work to do that very often.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

Quite so. It is one thing to introduce an idea in the abstract - quite another to bring it alive through a story.

In the past I've annoyed some more...er...fundamentalist Christians by pointing out that the concept is no different to the parables. It didn't go over well

[Katti's Cat]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

In the past I've annoyed some more...er...fundamentalist Christians by pointing out that the concept is no different to the parables. It didn't go over well

Is that the same as having a discussion with the ever-door-knocking bible pushers about the possibility that God is female?

[DawnFalcon]

No, I tend to get rid of those by saying I'm Jewish (which I am).

[Katti's Cat]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

No, I tend to get rid of those by saying I'm Jewish (which I am).

Ah but where is the fun in that? I used to tell them I had something cooking so couldn't talk but now I involve them in a discussion. Scary really how much I know about religion and the bible.

Each to their own I say - happy to talk & discuss anyones religion without trying to shuff my opinion down anyone's throat.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Katti's Cat

Is that the same as having a discussion with the ever-door-knocking bible pushers about the possibility that God is female?

What's even more scary is having them on school boards and choosing what textbooks are "allowed." I posted in the lounge because I wasn't sure where else to put it:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73923

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

No, I tend to get rid of those by saying I'm Jewish (which I am).

Back in my believing days (over 35 years ago), that would have just been an invitation to tell you about the messiah.

I was quite a piece of work in those days. Still am, but now I'm a different piece of work!