iPad Without Pixel Qi, the Apple iPad fails

[kjk]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Equally, then, you have to exclude the fans of a company, since their personal bias is equally destructive, since they refuse to consider the cons, just as people who dislike the company mindlessly refused to consider the pros.

Good luck with that one.

Sure. Blind devotion to one side or the other doesn't make for interesting conversations at all. To me the dividing line, which as nekokami mentioned earlier is a subtle one, is there is a difference between someone posting what features they personally like/dislike/need/hate in a product/company, and someone telling the rest of us what we should collectively like/dislike/need/hate in a product/company.

And again, I think there are different forums for a reason. The general and rants forums are great for people to rant about whatever. The Apple forum, like the Kindle forum and the Nook forum, are places where people INTERESTED in using those specific products are encouraged to congregate and share their knowledge. I just (personally) don't believe the product specific forums are for people who hate/have no interest in a product to constantly post about their dislike for the product, how the company does business, and how their CEO is forcing me to do things his way all the time To me, that is not conducive to an enjoyable, informative forum atmosphere that I'd be interested in participating in for long.

But, that's just me.

[DawnFalcon]

The moderators chose to move a lot of threads, the discussions are naturally going to follow them when in other cases they'd of stayed in the news forum. Their choice, but there are natural consequences to tightly controlling where certain devices are discussed.

In any case - I simply observed a piece of logic I found objectionable, and objected to it.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

For example - I have no problem with people buying Apple, but they should know about Apple's continued use of propitiatory DRM schemes and other lockin methods, which will limit their future device choices.

And I think that is a valid criticism. But your reasonable take on that isn't the issue-I may debate with you what I feel about Apple's stance on DRM, but I would never suggest that kind of discussion isn't appropriate in this forum.

What I do have a problem is when someone posts something to the effect that only idiots use iTunes, in a forum of people who, by definition, use iTunes. Do you agree with that difference?

[DawnFalcon]

I tend to look beyond the histrionics to see if there's a core to the argument or if they're arguing for the sake of it. Which, if it was a forum where I was an admin, that would dictate my response. I've dealt with a few "foul mouthed trolls" in the past who actually tended to post concise critiques of features, they just also included a bunch of bad language with them.

Of course, I've worked in a situation where bad-mouthed feedback meant major negative marks for the product and actually needed considerably more attention than polite feedback - of any nature (suffice to say "for kids", and some mothers really really have potty mouths and strong opinions) - so I'm biased.

[dmaul1114]

Personally I really think the device forums should mainly be for owners of a device to discuss that device--after the device is available anyway. And to answer specific questions about the device etc. etc.

All the pros, cons, haters, lovers etc. should be in the Which One Should I Buy forum if they want to try to sway people one way or the other. Otherwise that forum is redundant if people are having the same kind of discussions in the device forums.

It would be nice to have device forums be places to get tips and other info without discussions getting sidetracked by the pros/cons/which should I buy type of discussions that just end with fanboys and haters arguing back and forth over the same stuff ad nauseum.

[DawnFalcon]

The problem is identifying the "right" forum for discussion - the vast number of forums here makes it difficult in many cases to identify where to post if the topic is even marginally ambiguous. (I tend to just post in the news forum, which is one approach)

And of course, threads don't stay on topic, this being the internets.

[Victoria]

Originally Posted by kjk

Sure. Blind devotion to one side or the other doesn't make for interesting conversations at all. To me the dividing line, which as nekokami mentioned earlier is a subtle one, is there is a difference between someone posting what features they personally like/dislike/need/hate in a product/company, and someone telling the rest of us what we should collectively like/dislike/need/hate in a product/company.

And again, I think there are different forums for a reason. The general and rants forums are great for people to rant about whatever. The Apple forum, like the Kindle forum and the Nook forum, are places where people INTERESTED in using those specific products are encouraged to congregate and share their knowledge. I just (personally) don't believe the product specific forums are for people who hate/have no interest in a product to constantly post about their dislike for the product, how the company does business, and how their CEO is forcing me to do things his way all the time To me, that is not conducive to an enjoyable, informative forum atmosphere that I'd be interested in participating in for long.

But, that's just me.

Nope - that is me too!

[Charbax]

This is not the apple fans forum, this is mobileread. We discuss e-readers. The apple ipad is not yet released. Status of this section is most likely at the moment about discussing positives and negatives based on what we know, based on specs published, based on first impressions from handful of media apple allowed to test it.

If you decide to be a huge fan of those specs, of e-reader-unfriendly backlit LCD, of apple's closed iphone OS versus cheaper open Android devices coming with e-reader-friendly screen technology.

This is not mobilenotread.com this is mobileread.com

The ipad is failure when it comes to reading. And obviously the feature of reading has not been emphasized by apple, it's presented as more of a smallish feature. A bit like Kindle software for Windows, it's there, it can (obviously) open text documents and display the text documents. That does just not mean it is readable for hours and hours at a time, nor readable outdoors or anyplace that has a lot of ambient light.

[scottjl]

char, your rantings are childish and tiresome. like it or not this is the forum for discussion of apple products and people who want to use those products. you're clearly not a fan of apple, so move along and post in a forum where you can contribute positive material. the people here want to discuss what we do with our current apple products and what we look forward to doing on new products we purchase. we do not want to hear ravings of a disgruntled angry biased and bitter person.

[DawnFalcon]

Actually, I don't see "want to use those products" in the forum description. The issue is poor forum definitions, of course, but under the definitions that exist he's quite right in his basic point, even if he's putting it rather bluntly.

(And I'd again suggest consolidating the forums...)

[nikkie]

Well, this is charbax's thread after all. If you've got an issue with his point of view being posted, why continue posting in this thread?

I find it somewhat unfortunate that Apple didn't magically come up with a new screen technology that meets their requirements for high quality as well as our wishes for lighting and very long battery life, but I will still buy one as soon as they are out and I can afford it.

Being suitable for "mobile reading" is not only a factor of the screen technology, it also requires an appropriate form-factor - for which the iPad certainly seems to have to me. Many people read on netbooks here on mobileread; and the iPad has many (though not all) of the merits of a netbook without actually being one.

Because it does not have a keyboard, Apple had to come up with a new form of input, which they did with multi-touch on the iPhone. For me the application selection is quite sufficient, as there will be software which can read every major DRM eBook format on the market. Sure, I'd like to be able to download applications which haven't gone through Apple's approval process, but as an ebook reader, it will work perfectly fine. And if I really want some of those other apps, I can always jailbreak it.

So, I wouldn't say the iPad failed without Pixel Qi as an ereader. It's just not everything I had wished for. It still seems better to me than a netbook or my iPhone, as well as having greater format support than any other eInk device on the market.

It's obviously not right for everyone. If you have no interest in reading on an LCD screen, and consider it an offense against your religion that the device will require nightly charging, this is not the device for you. If you take offense to DRM, well...you'll have a hard time buying any ebooks legitimately. We don't even really have any solid info yet on what Apple's DRM will be - so can we discuss that when we know?

[scottjl]

well bluntly it's this. if you have nothing better to do with your time than long onto forums and make rants, raves, trolls, criticisms and basically poke your nose with a negative attitude into these forums maybe you ought to consider getting help, therapy or a life. the repetitive postings of the same rants over and over and over don't contribute one positive thing to this forum or the world in general. life is too short to spend all your time being bitter. so do us all a favor and get off line, out of the house and go smell some roses.

i think the people in the apple devices forums are here mostly to discuss the good things about apple's products, how to use them constructively, to share tips and tricks, and have constructive discussion on what they feel are shortcomings.

after all dawn, you yourself recently posted

Originally Posted by dawnfalcon

(And I don't give a flying **** about "respect", I care when people are simply wasting my time rather than helping out, when there are other FAR friendlier communities where people, if not interested in the criteria, simply don't feel the need to intrude on the thread!)

i would think that you would want to prevent further time wasted with unfriendly people in this forum.

[DawnFalcon]

You are not a moderator, and your attempt to dictate where I post is highly unwelcome. As I said to you in a PM, I strongly favour instant permabanning for backseat moderation and I'll certainly be reporting it every time I see you do in future.

There is little less friendly or more destructive to a forum community.

(Apologies to the mod team for that little rant, but it's been coming on for some time and I did ask him to stop doing it to me in a private message before this)


nikkie - Actually, the main corollary of refusing to buy DRM'ed ebooks for me is that I buy a lot of second hand books. And "all" we know about Apple's DRM is that it's their own ePub DRM scheme...which covers an awful lot.

[jackau]

I guess Pixel Qi type screen would first appear on some highend notebook.
The technology is still at its infancy, it would be atleast 2 years before it took off.

In the mean time, we face choice of ipad type LED reader with net surf functions, colour e-ink screen readers and mono grayscale readers.

Colour eink screen readers would struggle against Ipad on pricing and uptake, grayscale readers would be mainstream.

I expect 10 inch plus grayscale e-readers selling at US 100 or more below ipad's lowest price to show up second half of the year.

It will be a good year for readers.

[DawnFalcon]

Exactly - greyscale epaper prices are going to plumet. ASUS have put out a price point of £250 for a 9" SiPix screen reader (now due in 2 months), which is considerably cheaper than the KDX, and PVI themselves with their mass production deal should be able to cut their prices themselves.

While many people will chose a LCD-based device, epaper readers are, afaik, going to do quite well and in a few years time as screen technology advances, they'll merge into the lighter and smaller end of the slate range.