Consumer-friendly ebook retailers - Page 2

whitearrow · 02-10-2010, 03:40 PM

I tend to agree with stustaff.

DawnFalcon · 02-10-2010, 03:42 PM

Fine, wiped the list then. If people are going to bitch and moan, make your own list. I'm not interested in making one in the face of resistance when I was being helpful. I won't make that mistake again.

Ben Thornton · 02-10-2010, 03:59 PM

Perhaps rather than a thread, we could put a table in the Wiki where we have this useful data already, summarising the retailers by (starter for 10):
Name/link, genre(s), scale, geography, formats/drm, pricing, notes

This might make it easier to find the stores providing what you're interested in (e.g. a particular geography, or only drm-free etc.)

Anyone good at drawing tables in the Wiki?

Ben Thornton · 02-10-2010, 05:41 PM

Also, re the OP, for those wanting DRM-free sites, there is a list here which I found via ficbot's website.

DawnFalcon · 02-10-2010, 07:09 PM

Ben, the issue of single sort criteria (and gl getting people to do a fancy table in mediawiki...) is precisely the issue. I had multiple criteria and that was why I started the thread (and it would of migrated to the wiki at some point).

Deneb · 02-11-2010, 10:54 AM

Woah, I was wondering what was the reason of your editing the first post and I discover that I started the problem...
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to upset you, I didn't realise it was a "all or nothing" set of rules. The title was "consumer friendly" not "consumer spoiling", my mistake.

The thread having been cut short I won't quote, everything I could have said have been except may-be one thing: We're facing a real threat of having to pay ebooks at a set price on any site without a possible choice and you're refusing to consider those who are "consumer friendly" in every aspects except the one of not doing one last little step for you?
That's not being helpful and it's a little extremist in the current state.

This thread seemed quite useful, I seldom go to the wiki while on MR (sorry, but reading all the interesting threads takes enought time as it is

) so a list of "consumer freindly sites" easily available in a thread form seemed great and it could have become a sticky. Not any more of course, and here I just voted "for the company" in the poll asking why we come back on MR

And by the way, Bablepocket is multiformat as far as I can see.

DawnFalcon · 02-11-2010, 06:10 PM

I was interested in making a public list of sites which *I* and those with the same views as me would purchase from. DRM, regional restrictions and so on are *complete* blockers for me patronising a company, yes.

A lot of people seem here to find it unhelpful, as you do, so I'm making a list elsewhere with other people who are interested, and it'll be there and not here. *shrugs*

Deneb · 02-12-2010, 09:32 AM

We were ALL agreeing on Drm, geographical restrictions, and small prices...all we were saying is that as long as we could freely and easily convert the chosen format of the site, it qualified as "consumer friendly".
Please go make your list, I will stay with the grown ups here on MR

DawnFalcon · 02-12-2010, 11:46 AM

No, "friendly" does not involve having to convert a book. That's VERY unfriendly to your average Mop.

Also, *plonk*

theducks · 02-12-2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

No, "friendly" does not involve having to convert a book. That's VERY unfriendly to your average Mop.

Also, *plonk*

I agree! Books should be formatted for the reader and ready to read liker their paper cousins.
Buy - Open - Read

netseeker · 02-12-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deneb

We were ALL agreeing on Drm, geographical restrictions, and small prices...all we were saying is that as long as we could freely and easily convert the chosen format of the site, it qualified as "consumer friendly".

Majestic plural, your majesty? Actually not "all" are agreeing with your point of view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deneb

Please go make your list, I will stay with the grown ups here on MR

"Grown ups" don't insult others, don't you think?

Michael

Deneb · 02-13-2010, 10:19 AM

I'm sorry, didn't mean to insult anyone.
I simply don't get why Dawnfalcon overreacted like that, up to just errasing his/her comment when we (as I wasn't the only one commenting) were politely (at first) expressing our point of view.
And he/she wasn't nice either saying we (as in, the whole thread) were so dumb we couldn't accept his/her point of view so he/she was going elsewhere... the whole thing seemed childlish that all.

And no, not "Majestic Plural", I was refering to the comments of all the people above me who tried to explain why a simple conversion didn't disqualified a site from being "consumer friendly" especially if the format is the official standart.

The thread was very interesting, that's a waste. Saying that zuluexpress is consumer unfriendly is quite extreme (I'm not anyhow related to the site, just bought a book there). I don't think we (as in ebook readers) can afford to turn our nose up at such effort from an ebook site.

DawnFalcon · 02-13-2010, 10:30 AM

I said offering ePub only is unfriendly and I stick by it. Again, 1.5% (and that's probably an overestimate) of PC's have an installed ePub reader. Having to install specific reading software is decidedly unfriendly when there are quite a few more common formats, including HTML, which would require only slight changes in a script to generate alongside DRM-free ePub (as ePub is an XHTML wrapper...), which can be read by 99%+ of PC's without installing software.

It's as simple as that. And I wanted a list set by my own criteria in a thread I'd started. Instead people decided to criticise my criteria, and you're the one throwing around the word "childish".

GhostHawk · 02-13-2010, 10:57 AM

Offering just epub is unfriendly only if your ereader doesn't do epub. Period. To everyone else there is nothing unfriendly about it.

While I myself am not a epub fan, preferring to use simpler .rtf format.
Even I can see that Epub is becoming the standard over time.

So, to project your bias onto a list which could effect many many people is IMO wrong.
When we voiced our opinion, calmly, politely, you got your undies in a bunch and wanted to pick up your toys and go home. "If we can't play the game my way, we are not going to play at all"

Do you really think that is mature?

Now, its your right do to exactly that, fold your tent and close this thread.
But how can you expect to be respected if you are projecting bias and temper?

Now if any of this has offended you I am indeed sorry.
Such was not my intention.
If you truly want to help the first thing you have to do is realize that our own personal bias's should not be inflicted on others. The second thing is you can't use constructive Criticism as a reason to get angry.

So, can we lose this thread and start over? Or would you really rather continue?

DawnFalcon · 02-13-2010, 11:13 AM

There are 101 threads to discuss the various merits of file formats. I had a specific goal for this thread, and in another community they're sticking to the topic and helping out. I'm just not interested in working against opposition on the matter, basically.

And people were inflicting their own personal bias on something I was doing to help make a list for people with the same views I had. So...

(And I don't give a flying **** about "respect", I care when people are simply wasting my time rather than helping out, when there are other FAR friendlier communities where people, if not interested in the criteria, simply don't feel the need to intrude on the thread!)

And no, I will not "start over". It's a dead letter here, I'm afraid, and I won't be starting another list (or anything else comparable).

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02-10-2010, 03:40 PM	#16
whitearrow Guru Posts: 808 Karma: 2260766 Join Date: Apr 2008 Device: Kindle Oasis 2	I tend to agree with stustaff.

02-10-2010, 03:42 PM	#17
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Fine, wiped the list then. If people are going to bitch and moan, make your own list. I'm not interested in making one in the face of resistance when I was being helpful. I won't make that mistake again.

02-10-2010, 03:59 PM	#18
Ben Thornton Guru Posts: 900 Karma: 779635 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: UK Device: Kindle 3, iPad 2 (but not for e-books)	Perhaps rather than a thread, we could put a table in the Wiki where we have this useful data already, summarising the retailers by (starter for 10): Name/link, genre(s), scale, geography, formats/drm, pricing, notes This might make it easier to find the stores providing what you're interested in (e.g. a particular geography, or only drm-free etc.) Anyone good at drawing tables in the Wiki?

02-10-2010, 05:41 PM	#19
Ben Thornton Guru Posts: 900 Karma: 779635 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: UK Device: Kindle 3, iPad 2 (but not for e-books)	Also, re the OP, for those wanting DRM-free sites, there is a list here which I found via ficbot's website.

02-10-2010, 07:09 PM	#20
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Ben, the issue of single sort criteria (and gl getting people to do a fancy table in mediawiki...) is precisely the issue. I had multiple criteria and that was why I started the thread (and it would of migrated to the wiki at some point).

02-11-2010, 10:54 AM	#21
Deneb Groupie Posts: 181 Karma: 2460 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: Cybook	Woah, I was wondering what was the reason of your editing the first post and I discover that I started the problem... I'm sorry. I didn't mean to upset you, I didn't realise it was a "all or nothing" set of rules. The title was "consumer friendly" not "consumer spoiling", my mistake. The thread having been cut short I won't quote, everything I could have said have been except may-be one thing: We're facing a real threat of having to pay ebooks at a set price on any site without a possible choice and you're refusing to consider those who are "consumer friendly" in every aspects except the one of not doing one last little step for you? That's not being helpful and it's a little extremist in the current state. This thread seemed quite useful, I seldom go to the wiki while on MR (sorry, but reading all the interesting threads takes enought time as it is ) so a list of "consumer freindly sites" easily available in a thread form seemed great and it could have become a sticky. Not any more of course, and here I just voted "for the company" in the poll asking why we come back on MR And by the way, Bablepocket is multiformat as far as I can see.

02-11-2010, 06:10 PM	#22
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	I was interested in making a public list of sites which I and those with the same views as me would purchase from. DRM, regional restrictions and so on are complete blockers for me patronising a company, yes. A lot of people seem here to find it unhelpful, as you do, so I'm making a list elsewhere with other people who are interested, and it'll be there and not here. shrugs

02-12-2010, 09:32 AM	#23
Deneb Groupie Posts: 181 Karma: 2460 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: Cybook	We were ALL agreeing on Drm, geographical restrictions, and small prices...all we were saying is that as long as we could freely and easily convert the chosen format of the site, it qualified as "consumer friendly". Please go make your list, I will stay with the grown ups here on MR

02-12-2010, 11:46 AM	#24
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	No, "friendly" does not involve having to convert a book. That's VERY unfriendly to your average Mop. Also, plonk

02-13-2010, 10:19 AM	#27
Deneb Groupie Posts: 181 Karma: 2460 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: Cybook	I'm sorry, didn't mean to insult anyone. I simply don't get why Dawnfalcon overreacted like that, up to just errasing his/her comment when we (as I wasn't the only one commenting) were politely (at first) expressing our point of view. And he/she wasn't nice either saying we (as in, the whole thread) were so dumb we couldn't accept his/her point of view so he/she was going elsewhere... the whole thing seemed childlish that all. And no, not "Majestic Plural", I was refering to the comments of all the people above me who tried to explain why a simple conversion didn't disqualified a site from being "consumer friendly" especially if the format is the official standart. The thread was very interesting, that's a waste. Saying that zuluexpress is consumer unfriendly is quite extreme (I'm not anyhow related to the site, just bought a book there). I don't think we (as in ebook readers) can afford to turn our nose up at such effort from an ebook site.

02-13-2010, 10:30 AM	#28
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	I said offering ePub only is unfriendly and I stick by it. Again, 1.5% (and that's probably an overestimate) of PC's have an installed ePub reader. Having to install specific reading software is decidedly unfriendly when there are quite a few more common formats, including HTML, which would require only slight changes in a script to generate alongside DRM-free ePub (as ePub is an XHTML wrapper...), which can be read by 99%+ of PC's without installing software. It's as simple as that. And I wanted a list set by my own criteria in a thread I'd started. Instead people decided to criticise my criteria, and you're the one throwing around the word "childish".

02-13-2010, 10:57 AM	#29
GhostHawk Data Privateer! Posts: 586 Karma: 62887 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fargo ND Device: Ectaco Jetbook& Jetbook Lite	Offering just epub is unfriendly only if your ereader doesn't do epub. Period. To everyone else there is nothing unfriendly about it. While I myself am not a epub fan, preferring to use simpler .rtf format. Even I can see that Epub is becoming the standard over time. So, to project your bias onto a list which could effect many many people is IMO wrong. When we voiced our opinion, calmly, politely, you got your undies in a bunch and wanted to pick up your toys and go home. "If we can't play the game my way, we are not going to play at all" Do you really think that is mature? Now, its your right do to exactly that, fold your tent and close this thread. But how can you expect to be respected if you are projecting bias and temper? Now if any of this has offended you I am indeed sorry. Such was not my intention. If you truly want to help the first thing you have to do is realize that our own personal bias's should not be inflicted on others. The second thing is you can't use constructive Criticism as a reason to get angry. So, can we lose this thread and start over? Or would you really rather continue?

02-13-2010, 11:13 AM	#30
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	There are 101 threads to discuss the various merits of file formats. I had a specific goal for this thread, and in another community they're sticking to the topic and helping out. I'm just not interested in working against opposition on the matter, basically. And people were inflicting their own personal bias on something I was doing to help make a list for people with the same views I had. So... (And I don't give a flying **** about "respect", I care when people are simply wasting my time rather than helping out, when there are other FAR friendlier communities where people, if not interested in the criteria, simply don't feel the need to intrude on the thread!) And no, I will not "start over". It's a dead letter here, I'm afraid, and I won't be starting another list (or anything else comparable).