Amazon says 'will have to capitulate and accept Macmillan's terms' - Page 25

Lemurion · 02-07-2010, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

And that's the whole point of marketing and setting prices and making money as a business.

That's partly why I'm supporting Macmillan in this one: if they are wrong about what the market will bear, it will self-correct. Some books may be over-priced for a period of time, but if that's the case the industry will know if $9.99 is a realistic price for the ebook of a new hardcover bestseller.

DawnFalcon · 02-07-2010, 02:46 PM

Oh get real. They won't admit anything of the sort. Next up: Book industry complains about piracy...

guyanonymous · 02-07-2010, 02:46 PM

That would be the case if the other big-6 (3 so far) weren't pricing things in exactly the same way. Then the consumers would have a choice. By fixing a price (still can't see how this is legal) between all of them, the consumer has no choice.

bossfan2000 · 02-07-2010, 03:54 PM

I posted a rather angry rant about this on my blog just now, but here is an example of the "new" pricing of Tor books due to the ebook wars (quote from my rant):

Quote:

But wait! It gets even better! Check out the NEW prices before and after the ebook war for Daniel Abraham's Long Price Quartet (prices pre-war coming from inkmesh, as they still list the prices prior to Amazon's removal last week).

-A Shadow in Summer
--Before: 7.99 at B&N. Pretty sure this was less than 7.99 at Amazon, but cant prove it)
--After: 9.99 at B&N and Amazon.
--Everyone else is 12.43+

-A Betrayal in Winter (amazon prices)
--Before: Not sure for this one, but i think it was 7.19..see price for book 3 below
--After: 14.97
--Note that for some stupid reason, this ebook is Amazon only.

-An Autumn War (amazon prices)
--Before: I have an email proving I paid 7.19 on July 29, 2009
--After: 14.27 (or, DOUBLE what I paid 7 months ago!)

-The Price of Spring: (amazon prices)
--Before: 9.99
--After: 15.39
--NOTE: I paid 15 bucks for this book at Kobo last month..just mentioning, again, that I WILL buy books over 9.99. Heck, I've bought 5 or 6 ebooks over 9.99 since Jan 1, 2010.

Note also that Bones of the Dragon by Weiss and Hickman was 7.92 before the ebook war, and 14.97 after! Despite the mmp book being published 2 months ago, and the hardcover being in the bargain bin since May 2009.

How are we, as customers, supposed to be happy about the above? Or believe Macmillan actually will lower prices over time?

guyanonymous · 02-07-2010, 03:58 PM

Because they said they would!

kennyc · 02-07-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossfan2000

I posted a rather angry rant about this on my blog just now, but here is an example of the "new" pricing of Tor books due to the ebook wars (quote from my rant):

Note also that Bones of the Dragon by Weiss and Hickman was 7.92 before the ebook war, and 14.97 after! Despite the mmp book being published 2 months ago, and the hardcover being in the bargain bin since May 2009.

How are we, as customers, supposed to be happy about the above? Or believe Macmillan actually will lower prices over time?

Great point. I agree completely. MacMillan is only in this for ROI for its shareholders, they could care less about customers or authors. And they certainly don't care about ebook, this is pure protectionism of their print business. The thing I'm hoping for is they will die out like the dinosaurs they are.

jmaloney · 02-07-2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossfan2000

I posted a rather angry rant about this on my blog just now, but here is an example of the "new" pricing of Tor books due to the ebook wars (quote from my rant):

FYI: the new pricing model doesn't go into effect for another month and a half. What you're seeing now is not the result of the new model.

bossfan2000 · 02-07-2010, 05:43 PM

Thanks for the clarification. Though I still think Macmillan is guilty of not lowering prices over time...as the list price for most of those ebooks should be less I would think..at least for those with a mmpb edition.

Lemurion · 02-07-2010, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossfan2000

Thanks for the clarification. Though I still think Macmillan is guilty of not lowering prices over time...as the list price for most of those ebooks should be less I would think..at least for those with a mmpb edition.

I agree that they are and have been guilty of this. However, not lowering prices appears to be a deliberate policy, that they say they are about to change, so I'll give them the chance to implement the new policy before I bash them for not following it.

fugazied · 02-07-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

That's partly why I'm supporting Macmillan in this one: if they are wrong about what the market will bear, it will self-correct. Some books may be over-priced for a period of time, but if that's the case the industry will know if $9.99 is a realistic price for the ebook of a new hardcover bestseller.

The problem is the additional mechanisms which are adversely affecting the ebook marketplace right now. We have things like DRM, platform specific formats (books that can ONLY be read on a Kindle), publishers tied to certain sellers/platforms.

Because of those mechanisms, we get situations where certain books only get sold in a certain way. If the consumer has a certain reader they can only read certain books and so on. They can't simply walk to another bookstore or change reading devices because they might not find the book in the right format elsewhere or DRM has them locked to their device or risk losing their library. We don't have a free market in e-book segment, so who knows where this kind of price fixing will lead.

Lemurion · 02-07-2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fugazied

The problem is the additional mechanisms which are adversely affecting the ebook marketplace right now. We have things like DRM, platform specific formats (books that can ONLY be read on a Kindle), publishers tied to certain sellers/platforms.

Because of those mechanisms, we get situations where certain books only get sold in a certain way. If the consumer has a certain reader they can only read certain books and so on. They can't simply walk to another bookstore or change reading devices because they might not find the book in the right format elsewhere or DRM has them locked to their device or risk losing their library. We don't have a free market in e-book segment, so who knows where this kind of price fixing will lead.

This kind of price fixing leads to the very nastiest kind of vendor lock-in, which is one of the biggest problems I have had with the Kindle from the very beginning.

At least Sony added ePub and Adobe DRM reasonably quickly. I dislike DRM intensely, but the addition of ePub at least broke the vendor lock-in on Sony.

Having said that, it's a strange world where Sony can be considered more open than any of their competitors. It also truly damns the Kindle to say the platform provides fewer options than Sony.

Blue Tyson · 02-07-2010, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guyanonymous

That would be the case if the other big-6 (3 so far) weren't pricing things in exactly the same way. Then the consumers would have a choice. By fixing a price (still can't see how this is legal) between all of them, the consumer has no choice.

Could kill 3 with one stone?

Blue Tyson · 02-07-2010, 08:37 PM

Something I was joking about on teleread - but it is easily doable to track this with a program.

If they don't, then easy enough to collaborate on the 'Macmillan are Big Fat Liars booklist'

Or wiki, even! Here's the 2674 books they are ripping you off on at this shop..., the 2214 at this shop... etc.

bgalbrecht · 02-08-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

That's partly why I'm supporting Macmillan in this one: if they are wrong about what the market will bear, it will self-correct. Some books may be over-priced for a period of time, but if that's the case the industry will know if $9.99 is a realistic price for the ebook of a new hardcover bestseller.

I think the market can bear $15+ ebook prices when the hardcover has just come out and there's no MMPB, unless it's one of the 50-100 bestsellers that Amazon, Wal-Mart, Target, B&N, etc. is heavily discounting the hardcover to $9.99 or less. I suppose MacMillan can prove me wrong, but MacMillan's CEO has already said that is too low for such an ebook, so I don't expect MacMillan to price match the discounted hardcover prices.

theducks · 02-08-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daithi

Were did you get the information that Amazon was preventing DRM-free releases. I was under the impression that publishers can currently select whether or not they want to include DRM on their ebooks.

Tony Weisskopf, over at "'The Bar" has stated negotiations are slow because Amazon insists on DRM.

Dealers have always had their "say" (mostly ignored, which is one reason for the ABA).

Amazon is the 500 pound Gorilla: "I Will Have. NOW!"

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02-07-2010, 02:46 PM	#362
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Oh get real. They won't admit anything of the sort. Next up: Book industry complains about piracy...

02-07-2010, 02:46 PM	#363
guyanonymous Guru Posts: 692 Karma: 27532 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Ebookwise 1150 / 1200	That would be the case if the other big-6 (3 so far) weren't pricing things in exactly the same way. Then the consumers would have a choice. By fixing a price (still can't see how this is legal) between all of them, the consumer has no choice.

02-07-2010, 03:58 PM	#365
guyanonymous Guru Posts: 692 Karma: 27532 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Ebookwise 1150 / 1200	Because they said they would!

02-07-2010, 05:43 PM	#368
bossfan2000 Connoisseur Posts: 58 Karma: 504579 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Nashville, TN Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kobo Mini, iPhone 6+, Kindle Voyage	Thanks for the clarification. Though I still think Macmillan is guilty of not lowering prices over time...as the list price for most of those ebooks should be less I would think..at least for those with a mmpb edition.

02-07-2010, 08:37 PM	#373
Blue Tyson Blue Captain Posts: 1,595 Karma: 5000236 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Australia Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G,Huawei Ideos X3,Kobo Mini	Something I was joking about on teleread - but it is easily doable to track this with a program. If they don't, then easy enough to collaborate on the 'Macmillan are Big Fat Liars booklist' Or wiki, even! Here's the 2674 books they are ripping you off on at this shop..., the 2214 at this shop... etc.