Why is it okay for Jobs, but not for Bezos?

[mcl]

Originally Posted by smerrall

The way I see it is that eReader owners have accepted $300 of printing and distribution costs upon themselves up front. It is not unreasonable to feel they should be able to buy an eBook that is, perhaps, $1 cheaper to produce for less than the pBook and recoup that cost over the course of 300-400 book purchases.

It's also not unreasonable to bristle at the following idea:

"hey, Bob bought a $300 item! Obviously he can afford to pay more for everything else, too!"

[TallMomof2]

What really tees me off about this is that I can walk into Costco and buy almost any new release hardback for $15.19 plus 5% sales tax. I was just there today and that's what hardcovers are mostly priced at. Paperbacks are usually $4.99 or $5.99. MMPB a bit higher.

Why should I expect to pay $14.99 for an ebook that will have DRM, only a 50% chance of real cover art, and no ability to resell or giveaway? Plus add that the formatting is rarely as good as the hardback and all I see is that the publishers are greedy and have a very low opinion of ebook consumers. Another thing that upsets me is how little authors make off of any book. I wish my favorite authors had tip jars on their websites so that I could pay them directly.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

Why should I expect to pay $14.99 for an ebook that will have DRM, only a 50% chance of real cover art, and no ability to resell or giveaway? Plus add that the formatting is rarely as good as the hardback and all I see is that the publishers are greedy and have a very low opinion of ebook consumers. Another thing that upsets me is how little authors make off of any book. I wish my favorite authors had tip jars on their websites so that I could pay them directly.

Well you should not buy it if it has DRM or is damaged in any other way. The problem now is that people buy DRM:ed books and show the support for the system. If people pay more they will not accept things like bad formatting and the quality will improve. You can argue that the problem now is that people do not complain and continue to buy badly formatted books.

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

What really tees me off about this is that I can walk into Costco and buy almost any new release hardback for $15.19 plus 5% sales tax. I was just there today and that's what hardcovers are mostly priced at. Paperbacks are usually $4.99 or $5.99. MMPB a bit higher.

Why should I expect to pay $14.99 for an ebook that will have DRM, only a 50% chance of real cover art, and no ability to resell or giveaway? Plus add that the formatting is rarely as good as the hardback and all I see is that the publishers are greedy and have a very low opinion of ebook consumers. Another thing that upsets me is how little authors make off of any book. I wish my favorite authors had tip jars on their websites so that I could pay them directly.

Heartily agree on all points.

[kilron]

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

What really tees me off about this is that I can walk into Costco and buy almost any new release hardback for $15.19 plus 5% sales tax. I was just there today and that's what hardcovers are mostly priced at. Paperbacks are usually $4.99 or $5.99. MMPB a bit higher.

Why should I expect to pay $14.99 for an ebook that will have DRM, only a 50% chance of real cover art, and no ability to resell or giveaway? Plus add that the formatting is rarely as good as the hardback and all I see is that the publishers are greedy and have a very low opinion of ebook consumers. Another thing that upsets me is how little authors make off of any book. I wish my favorite authors had tip jars on their websites so that I could pay them directly.

very good points. the basic problem is eBook saturation. the eBook market is so small still compared to the overall market of avid readers. if you look at emerging markets alone, simple supply and demand would tell you that a physical book should be priced cheaper than an eBook, even though the eBook has no cost associated with being a physical product.

some of you may have read this before, but steve ballmer, microsoft's CEO has a famous saying (a "ballmerism") that goes, "A business isn't worth entering unless the sales potential is 50 million units or more."

by that yardstick, the dedicated eReader market is clearly not worth entering for a company as big as microsoft. even steve jobs said a couple years ago that nobody reads anymore and sited a stat that 40% of the US reads 1 book or less a year.

to me, the problem is CLEARLY and has always been, market size vs. cost of entry. the dedicated eReader market is far too small right now and the cost of entry is FAR too high. and the cost of entry has a direct impact on market penetration. dedicated eReaders are FAR too expensive. almost every single eReader IMO should be priced $150 or less. there should be several for under $100.

now multi-purpose devices are another story. until dedicated eReaders drop in price dramatically, portable multi-use/multi-purpose devices (handheld computers) like the iPhone, iPod touch, iPad, Android devices, Palm Web OS devices, etc. they are the best thing that's happened to the eBook market. most people probably can't justify spending $250-$300 on a dedicated eBook reader, but if they already have another device (for other purposes) that can ALSO read eBooks in a very easy way, then THAT is something that can push the market forward.

considering all of that, the eBook market is still in its infancy and still maturing. think about the big markets of mobile devices and gadgets... look at how many people have digital cameras, mp3 players, smartphones & cellphones, laptops & netbooks, etc...... those are HUGE markets individually and the dedicated eBook Reader market can't currently hold a candle to any one of them. apple is currently a major player in 3 of those 4 markets.

so the original poster asked why apple has so much more pull than amazon? THAT'S why.

[guyanonymous]

....wouldn't simple supply and demand, well, be broken, since supply is infinite in the case of electronic media? The old rules don't apply in the same way any more.

[kilron]

Originally Posted by guyanonymous

....wouldn't simple supply and demand, well, be broken, since supply is infinite in the case of electronic media? The old rules don't apply in the same way any more.

i actually mentioned that up above in my post. but where's the motivation for publishers to sell eBooks cheaper when the market of readers overwhelmingly still purchase physical books?

why wouldn't they charge more for eBooks when the cost of entry is so high. they're selling to the current demographic that chooses to purchase an eBook reader, getting back to one of my original points that the cost of entry is still WAY too high.

they're probably playing with their own reasoning for why people buy eBook readers. look at the cost of books and if the physical books are more expensive, why would someone buy eBooks? so the point is that publishers probably make the assumption that the dedicated eBook reader market buys dedicated eBook readers because they like the portability and instant access to books. its a convenience thing, not a cost savings thing. it also most likely prays upon some people's wishes to "go green" and thus spare some trees. usually people don't mind paying a little more to help out the environment, even if only in a very small way.

it makes sense. why would someone pay $300 to save money on books? publishers most likely fully believe that the number of people that buy eBook readers with the expressed plan of saving money on books has got to be miniscule. that's just not the prime motivation of buyers.

[guyanonymous]

An ability to see the future and want to get in on the ground floor. And it is hard to be the chicken without an egg, so to speak.

I understand the narrow view (and mine is narrow in another way) of publishers and their desperate hope to cling to their business model just a little longer...but I also see it as short-sighted and ultimately doomed to failure.

And I agree- the price of entry for many is still way too high.

I bought my reader at $125 US (plus shipping)...that worked for me. I justified it by the free books I'd get via P.G.

[kilron]

i also believe that technology has grown to the point that single-use devices are dying.

look at mp3 players for example. whereas they used to only play music (and some very basic games), now they do so much more than play music. probably the 2 most popular mp3 players on the market are the iPod nano and the iPod touch. the nano can also record movies and play videos while the touch can do incredible amounts of things with the apps. the zune is following in its footsteps with its own app store as well.

look at digital cameras. now they not only take photos but videos too. some are adding GPS awareness and wi-fi connection capabilities as well. you're going to see more and more of this in cameras as time comes as you're also seeing other devices (phones, mp3 players, etc.) also add cameras. the quicker it allows people to share their photos, the better.

phones of course now do SO much more than just call people. they're all basically handheld computers.

more and more we see mobile devices and gadgets adding more and more functionality and its also what people want because they're selling. dedicated eBook readers may be great for reading, but the market for them at the current price point may not continue to grow for much longer unless they significantly broaden their horizons (capabilities) and lower their prices.

[Sydney's Mom]

Originally Posted by charleski

So basically the whole attraction of ebooks for you was cheap stuff?

There's no wonder that publishers are wary of the ebook market when there are people who see them simply as a way to get cheap books. It's quite sickening to see the number of people willing to spend $300 on a shiny toy but will carp at the idea of paying a fair price for books.

Since price seems to matter so much to you, here's a thought - sell your Kindle and buy paperbacks instead.

I said it was a selling point, not that it sold me.

Who decides what is a fair price for books? I thought in a capitalist society, it was the consumer. Some consumers feel $15 for a DRMed ebook is not fair. Obviously Macmillan feels it is. But they represent the seller, not the consumer. I guess we will find out what the consumer thinks-that was the purpose of this thread.

Luckily, I don't need you to approve of how I spend my money. If you had read my posts, you would have seen that the format is most important to me, not price. But I am fortunate - I don't need to chose between my ereader and buying books at $10 or $15. I want my ebooks available at launch, at a price less than a hardback. I want the market to decide what that price is, not Macmillan.

[Sydney's Mom]

Originally Posted by kilron

to me, the problem is CLEARLY and has always been, market size vs. cost of entry. the dedicated eReader market is far too small right now and the cost of entry is FAR too high. and the cost of entry has a direct impact on market penetration. dedicated eReaders are FAR too expensive. almost every single eReader IMO should be priced $150 or less. there should be several for under $100. . . . the eBook market is still in its infancy and still maturing. think about the big markets of mobile devices and gadgets... look at how many people have digital cameras, mp3 players, smartphones & cellphones, laptops & netbooks, etc...... those are HUGE markets individually and the dedicated eBook Reader market can't currently hold a candle to any one of them. apple is currently a major player in 3 of those 4 markets.

so the original poster asked why apple has so much more pull than amazon? THAT'S why.

Of course. Reading is becoming less popular, not more, while even I have an ipod (to organize my huge CD collection, and play old movies). I don't understand why someone would want an ipod before an ereader, and so I don't understand why a media seller (Apple) has more pull than a book seller (Amazon - I have spent more on books at Amazon than on everything else I have bought there put together). But then, I have always been a nerd!

[kjk]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

I don't understand why a media seller (Apple) has more pull than a book seller (Amazon - I have spent more on books at Amazon than on everything else I have bought there put together). But then, I have always been a nerd!

I think its more the publishers using Apple as an excuse to leverage themselves against Amazon...I really don't think Apple has the kind of pull in books that they do in music..yet. But, I'm a nerd too.

[Connallmac]

Originally Posted by kjk

I think its more the publishers using Apple as an excuse to leverage themselves against Amazon...I really don't think Apple has the kind of pull in books that they do in music..yet. But, I'm a nerd too.

Exactly!

[Sydney's Mom]

Originally Posted by kjk

I think its more the publishers using Apple as an excuse to leverage themselves against Amazon...I really don't think Apple has the kind of pull in books that they do in music..yet. But, I'm a nerd too.

I was not very precise - so unnerdy! I think Apple, because they have the more popular culture behind them, are more powerful than Amazon, which just has booklovers behind it (at least in this fight). I have never heard Jobs retract his statement that no one reads anymore, and the ipad is certainly not an indication Jobs thinks reading is going anywhere.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

I was not very precise - so unnerdy! I think Apple, because they have the more popular culture behind them, are more powerful than Amazon, which just has booklovers behind it (at least in this fight). I have never heard Jobs retract his statement that no one reads anymore, and the ipad is certainly not an indication Jobs thinks reading is going anywhere.

Yeah..iBook is just one feature in Apple's iPad strategy, definitely not their main focus...whereas for Amazon, its the whole ballgame for now.