Unboxing iRex 800 and first impressions - Page 41

akey · 02-04-2010, 12:30 PM

While I can understand the need for product differentiation I feel that lack of zoom for PDFs is a deal breaker for many(myself included).

A 10" reader does not need zoom nearly as much as an 8" reader does, yet the feature is reserved for the device that needs it the least.

If someone wants a 10" reader, then they will buy a 10" reader. Similarly, a person that has no need for such a large reader (or in my case, the inability to pay for it) will very rarely want to move up to the 10" reader. I think that it is more likely that instead of causing a DR1000 sale it will cause the loss of a DR800 sale.

All keeping PDF zoom from the DR800 does is make it less appealing to the people that were actually considering buying it.

Personally, I am a physics grad student and I cannot wait for a reader that will meet my needs and cost <= $400. My friends and I were planning on buying this one (4 of us), however, without PDF zoom it is completely useless to us.

Why, exactly, is it so difficult to build an 8" device that can properly handle PDF (not to mention djvu...).

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I'm frustrated with the current developments in eReaders, continue on

ajamudc · 02-04-2010, 12:31 PM

I can somewhat understand the lack of zoom in pdfs as a differentiation between the higher priced 1000 for the professional market, but I can't understand having the wacom screen and leaving out annotation. Why have a stylus enabled touchscreen and not have annotation? If the touchscreen is just for navigation, then it seems better to use a finger enabled touchscreen with no stylus support. That option would seem to appeal more to the 'consumer' market.

Shaggy · 02-04-2010, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgmueller

BTW: I really don't understand, why most of the manufacturers don't offer WiFi. I really enjoy it on nook and that's the main reason why I rank it that high.
But as the clear majority of manufacturers doesn't offer WiFi, there seems to be a valid reason...

Yeah, I'm going to miss that as well if I switch from my iLiad to a DR800SG. I'm hoping that I'll be able to hack it enough so that I can use the 3G to do what I used to do with WiFi, but we'll see.

akey · 02-04-2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

The DR800 is a consumer device. The DR1000 is a professional device.

Then why, oh why, can we not have a DR800P (P for Professional) that perhaps costs $100 more and is not artificially hampered by software.

I guess one can dream...

Not all "professionals" want 10" devices :/

Shaggy · 02-04-2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbob001

or that a future update to the DR1000x will give it the DR800x interface.

They probably want to keep that option open.

Shaggy · 02-04-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajamudc

I can somewhat understand the lack of zoom in pdfs as a differentiation between the higher priced 1000 for the professional market, but I can't understand having the wacom screen and leaving out annotation. Why have a stylus enabled touchscreen and not have annotation? If the touchscreen is just for navigation, then it seems better to use a finger enabled touchscreen with no stylus support. That option would seem to appeal more to the 'consumer' market.

They've been saying that annotation will be added in the future. Whether or not that comes true, we'll have to wait and see.

I don't believe that this was due to product differentiation, but rather that they haven't had the time to rewrite the PDF viewer (switching to Adobe) and integrate the annotations back in yet.

wallcraft · 02-04-2010, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akey

My friends and I were planning on buying this one (4 of us), however, without PDF zoom it is completely useless to us.

I agree that iRex has probably more than halved its sales by excluding PDF zoom. Practically every "Which one" thread asks for PDF, yet the iLiad "solved" the PDF EInk problem years ago (8" or larger screen and flexible zoom).

Now it is looking like the Jinke A9, or the Asus DR-950, or the Qnyx 8" device, or the PocketBook 901 will provide the first affordable EInk PDF reader. One more blown opportunity by iRex.

Shaggy · 02-04-2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akey

Then why, oh why, can we not have a DR800P (P for Professional) that perhaps costs $100 more and is not artificially hampered by software.

I guess one can dream...

Not all "professionals" want 10" devices :/

They may do something like this, we don't know. Right now there is basically only one version of each (treating the DR800S basically the same as a DR800SG). I wouldn't be surprised if, moving forward, they eventually end up in a place where there are professional and consumer versions of each (at prices that reflect the difference).

IE,

DR800SG
DR800SG Pro
DR1000S
DR1000S Pro (what is the DR1000S today)

The differences could be enabled features, support, etc.

Shaggy · 02-04-2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

I agree that iRex has probably more than halved its sales by excluding PDF zoom.

That's why I'm thinking that they may revisit this decision at some point. It may depend on how much feedback they get requesting zoom, and how well the DR800 sales go. I wouldn't be surprised if they add it in at some point. Still, they do want to have some differentiation between the DR800 and DR1000. The question is whether the size difference is enough.

Put yourself in their shoes. If the DR800 could do everything the DR1000 does, they will be losing DR1000 sales. Would you rather lose DR800 sales or DR1000 sales? You want people to buy the DR1000 instead of the DR800 because of the additional capabilities, but you don't want people not buying either.

The trick is finding the right balance between the two. That's something that will, hopefully, be adjustable as they go forward.

zinj · 02-04-2010, 01:07 PM

A poster in the IREX forum stated that his local Best Buy told him the other day that the 800SG would be released on Feb 4th. Well, today is Feb 4th. ???

badbob001 · 02-04-2010, 01:18 PM

Keep in mind that if all these missing features are already implemented and just disabled, then we would already have an updated firmware for the DR1000. Since we're not at that point, it's probably too early to blame IREX for a decision they haven't made yet (unless you don't like their decision for releasing the DR800 before it has all the features you want).

Zoom, folder view, word lookup, goto page, etc are more like conveniences than major features and it would be silly to use those functions to coerce the user to buy a Pro version. I don't see how a prospective DR800 buyer would choose the much more expense DR1000 because of those functions. Isn't the larger screen and higher resolution enough of a reason? I don't think the public views kindly to crippleware or pay-for-features-that-are-there-but-disabled. There are always at least two sides to an argument but I think we're grasping a bit in our attempts to rationalize the situation.

professzore · 02-04-2010, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

DR800SG
DR800SG Pro
DR1000S
DR1000S Pro (what is the DR1000S today)

The differences could be enabled features, support, etc.

Don't you think that the difference may downlodable just a few seconds after the release to let anyone make Pro from a non-Pro device?

ajamudc · 02-04-2010, 02:03 PM

Unfortunately, I think I'm going to go for a smaller less expensive model, like the nook or maybe the bebook neo. I really like the 800 and the screen size, but I don't think I can justify buying it without better pdf handling, annotation support and dictionary lookup. At the higher price point (well high to me), I would want a product that is good on the daily commute, as well as handling more technical documents for continuing education. I was excited about the 800 because this almost fit this combination perfectly. I know the smaller units have their compromises, but at least they don't hurt my bottom line as much. Thanks everyone for all the information.

electrotype · 02-04-2010, 02:18 PM

I would buy a DR800 today if it has PDF zooming.

I'll never buy one without this feature, and I know I'm not the only one in this situation. There are a lot of regular users (not profesionnals) who want to buy an ebook reader only for complex/technical/scanned book PDF.

Shaggy · 02-04-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbob001

Keep in mind that if all these missing features are already implemented and just disabled, then we would already have an updated firmware for the DR1000.

I believe the firmware update for the DR1000 is waiting on the annotation feature, which isn't one that is already implemented and just disabled.

02-04-2010, 01:07 PM	#610
zinj Connoisseur Posts: 97 Karma: 359912 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Florida Device: Irex DR800SG, Kyobo Mirasol Reader, 2 Pocketbook Ultras	Where is it? A poster in the IREX forum stated that his local Best Buy told him the other day that the 800SG would be released on Feb 4th. Well, today is Feb 4th. ???

02-04-2010, 01:18 PM	#611
badbob001 Fanatic Posts: 556 Karma: 1102020 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: Kindle Keyboard (rip), Kindle Voyage, Fire Tablet 10 '17, iPad '19	Keep in mind that if all these missing features are already implemented and just disabled, then we would already have an updated firmware for the DR1000. Since we're not at that point, it's probably too early to blame IREX for a decision they haven't made yet (unless you don't like their decision for releasing the DR800 before it has all the features you want). Zoom, folder view, word lookup, goto page, etc are more like conveniences than major features and it would be silly to use those functions to coerce the user to buy a Pro version. I don't see how a prospective DR800 buyer would choose the much more expense DR1000 because of those functions. Isn't the larger screen and higher resolution enough of a reason? I don't think the public views kindly to crippleware or pay-for-features-that-are-there-but-disabled. There are always at least two sides to an argument but I think we're grasping a bit in our attempts to rationalize the situation. Last edited by badbob001; 02-04-2010 at 01:22 PM.

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02-04-2010, 12:30 PM	#601
akey Member Posts: 18 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: iRex ...	While I can understand the need for product differentiation I feel that lack of zoom for PDFs is a deal breaker for many(myself included). A 10" reader does not need zoom nearly as much as an 8" reader does, yet the feature is reserved for the device that needs it the least. If someone wants a 10" reader, then they will buy a 10" reader. Similarly, a person that has no need for such a large reader (or in my case, the inability to pay for it) will very rarely want to move up to the 10" reader. I think that it is more likely that instead of causing a DR1000 sale it will cause the loss of a DR800 sale. All keeping PDF zoom from the DR800 does is make it less appealing to the people that were actually considering buying it. Personally, I am a physics grad student and I cannot wait for a reader that will meet my needs and cost <= $400. My friends and I were planning on buying this one (4 of us), however, without PDF zoom it is completely useless to us. Why, exactly, is it so difficult to build an 8" device that can properly handle PDF (not to mention djvu...). I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I'm frustrated with the current developments in eReaders, continue on

02-04-2010, 12:31 PM	#602
ajamudc Member Posts: 16 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2006 Device: nook	I can somewhat understand the lack of zoom in pdfs as a differentiation between the higher priced 1000 for the professional market, but I can't understand having the wacom screen and leaving out annotation. Why have a stylus enabled touchscreen and not have annotation? If the touchscreen is just for navigation, then it seems better to use a finger enabled touchscreen with no stylus support. That option would seem to appeal more to the 'consumer' market.

02-04-2010, 02:03 PM	#613
ajamudc Member Posts: 16 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2006 Device: nook	Unfortunately, I think I'm going to go for a smaller less expensive model, like the nook or maybe the bebook neo. I really like the 800 and the screen size, but I don't think I can justify buying it without better pdf handling, annotation support and dictionary lookup. At the higher price point (well high to me), I would want a product that is good on the daily commute, as well as handling more technical documents for continuing education. I was excited about the 800 because this almost fit this combination perfectly. I know the smaller units have their compromises, but at least they don't hurt my bottom line as much. Thanks everyone for all the information.

02-04-2010, 02:18 PM	#614
electrotype Enthusiast Posts: 46 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: none	I would buy a DR800 today if it has PDF zooming. I'll never buy one without this feature, and I know I'm not the only one in this situation. There are a lot of regular users (not profesionnals) who want to buy an ebook reader only for complex/technical/scanned book PDF.