The iPad and e-Books: A Missed Opportunity - Page 2

Kali Yuga · 02-04-2010, 09:24 AM

Personally, I don't have much use for flashy gunk in an ebook (or tablets in general

). However....

1) Apple isn't particularly innovative when it comes to things like file formats.
2) Hopefully, some sort of "tap on a word, get a dictionary/encyclopedia entry" should be included. That's not really part of the file format anyway, that's the software (which can always be updated).
3) Similarly, unless ePub works totally differently than mobi, you should be able to tap on a linked word and have it take you to another part of the book (e.g. a map).
4) I also assume that if some sort of image zoom isn't in the 1st iteration, it can be easily added (again, not really a file format issue)

I.e. it's better to wait until you have the product in your hand and used it for a few days prior to evaluating its capacities....

BillSmithBooks · 02-04-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-eBook-Reader

They can call it EPUB all they want, but there's nothing open about it. It's a compete and total farce. Apple's EPUB is a closed circle, no different than Amazon.

From Adobe's blog:

Yes, any form of Epud with DRM (Adobe or Apple) is a total farce if they dare to call it an "open format."

If it has DRM, it is not "open." They are deceiving consumers in promoting it as such.

ardeegee · 02-04-2010, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonbone

What's a knat?

It is something like a dikfore.

And I, for one, am happy "consuming text" as a series of alphanumeric characters strung together into lines. I don't need a "revolutionary exxxxxtreeeeem new Apple way of "consuming text."

daffy4u · 02-04-2010, 11:31 AM

Keep in mind that Apple does not create the content they just present it (as do all ebook retailers). If folks want all those whiz-bang features, the content creators will have to create it (hey publishers, we have a job for you) and the hardware folks will find a way to present it.

Krystian Galaj · 02-04-2010, 11:37 AM

Apple using protected ePub is still better than them using completely proprietary format.

Take for example Topaz, which doesn't contain the text inside it at all, it contains a series or small (often letter-sized) scan fragments, and instructions where to draw each scan fragment on the screen. Try to convert something like that to text now - doesn't matter if it's protected or not. It needs a whole new renderer.

On the other hand, ePub is ePub, and whether it's protected by Adobe DRM, Apple DRM or B&N DRM, deep inside the operating system, once it's unprotected, it's all the same standard text. Single renderer can be used to display all three of them, once they have been unprotected. That means that an ePub renderer has been made by Apple for iPad, and it's very likely that they will use the same renderer to display unprotected ePubs, and that it will become a reference renderer all publishers will format their books to look good in.

This is the one standard, that will simplify e-books algorithms and production methods a lot - even if it doesn't make e-books free.

Jellby · 02-04-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris777

the reality is that EPUB’s interactive features are very limited right now, basically limited to simple images and videos.

Actually, the reality is EPUB does not support videos, that's why it is called an ebook format. If they want some interactive multimedia whatever, they're welcome to develop it, but that's not an ebook, an ebook is for reading.

DawnFalcon · 02-04-2010, 11:58 AM

Actually, several of the ePub renderers (O'Rilley's Bookworm, ADE on the PC...) do support video. Just fyi. (Easiest way to do it? Flash)

It's an XHTML wrapper, sheesh.

kilron · 02-04-2010, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-eBook-Reader

They can call it EPUB all they want, but there's nothing open about it. It's a compete and total farce. Apple's EPUB is a closed circle, no different than Amazon.

From Adobe's blog:

Quote:

For example, EPUB content protected with Apple DRM won't work on numerous eReaders like the Barnes & Noble nook and the Sony Reader, not to mention future, forthcoming models. Similarly, protected EPUB eBooks obtained from thousands of online booksellers (including Barnes & Noble) and most public libraries (including The New York Public Library)—are unreadable on the iPad.

they everyone's is a closed circle. and don't believe everything you read on adobe websites. they're so full of bull these days in hating apple because of their resistance to flash that they're too blind to see the hands in front of their face. you most certainly CAN read books from barnes & noble and books obtained from thousands of online booksellers on the iPad! you just will be doing it from a different app (free app) than the built-in iBooks app. adobe doesn't want you to know this though, they just want you to think that apple is satan.

guyanonymous · 02-04-2010, 12:13 PM

You presume that the free app will continue to be available now that Apple has their own product.

kilron · 02-04-2010, 12:16 PM

this point has already been discussed a bit on the forum.... the answer is of course they will. and i believe its a very safe assumption. saying its not is simply fear-mongering. apple is not going to take away functionality that has already been well established. its just not going to happen. apple is also continually opening up more and more api's for developers and loosening restrictions. they're not going to take away the apps that are already there. they're simply going to make a better one that is integrated already with the device you purchase.

Penforhire · 02-04-2010, 12:21 PM

I would have paid an extra $150-odd (hah, and would buy an iPad) if it had an E-ink screen on the flip-side and a slip-cover system to protect the unused side.

Um, don't we have an Apple forum where iPad stuff is now planted?

guyanonymous · 02-04-2010, 12:22 PM

I really have trouble believing what they say until they actually do it. We'll see how it goes. I'm an equal opportunity corporate pessimist. As for Apple's protectionist policies, I'll take the evidence from the past over a promised change in the future - until I see otherwise.

kjk · 02-04-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

Apple using protected ePub is still better than them using completely proprietary format.

Take for example Topaz, which doesn't contain the text inside it at all, it contains a series or small (often letter-sized) scan fragments, and instructions where to draw each scan fragment on the screen. Try to convert something like that to text now - doesn't matter if it's protected or not. It needs a whole new renderer.

That sounds pretty crazy-so it is displaying scans, not characters? Or is it converting them to characters on the fly?

Quote:

This is the one standard, that will simplify e-books algorithms and production methods a lot - even if it doesn't make e-books free.

Yes-and it allows for DRM in the standard-and currently doesn't specify any flavor (although I read they were thinking about that?)

kilron · 02-04-2010, 12:28 PM

hmm.... i guess you could view it in different ways. apple is already saying that they're not going to pull the apps, so pulling them would be a change. they've said that virtually all of the apps currently available on the iPhone/iPod touch will be on the iPad. the only ones that won't are the ones requiring the phone capabilities in the iPhone. i guess i just don't see a point right now in thinking otherwise until we have some sort of proof or indication. know what i mean?

these things are basically handheld computers. having a B&N and kindle app on there is a very good thing for apple and i don't think they see it as a direct hit to their revenue. i think they see it more as a bridge to their product. bring them in with the promise that its the only device that works with all of these different formats, and then show them how easy the new iBooks store is and how superior their reading applications is.

DawnFalcon · 02-04-2010, 12:29 PM

kjk - It's putting a load of mostly tiny image fragments together on the fly. Yes, it's sloooow for a reason.

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02-04-2010, 09:24 AM	#16
Kali Yuga Professional Contrarian Posts: 2,045 Karma: 3289631 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie	Personally, I don't have much use for flashy gunk in an ebook (or tablets in general ). However.... 1) Apple isn't particularly innovative when it comes to things like file formats. 2) Hopefully, some sort of "tap on a word, get a dictionary/encyclopedia entry" should be included. That's not really part of the file format anyway, that's the software (which can always be updated). 3) Similarly, unless ePub works totally differently than mobi, you should be able to tap on a linked word and have it take you to another part of the book (e.g. a map). 4) I also assume that if some sort of image zoom isn't in the 1st iteration, it can be easily added (again, not really a file format issue) I.e. it's better to wait until you have the product in your hand and used it for a few days prior to evaluating its capacities....

02-04-2010, 11:31 AM	#19
daffy4u I'm Super Kindle-icious Posts: 6,734 Karma: 2434103 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Long Drive, Calinadia Candafornia Device: KDXG, KT, Oasis	Keep in mind that Apple does not create the content they just present it (as do all ebook retailers). If folks want all those whiz-bang features, the content creators will have to create it (hey publishers, we have a job for you) and the hardware folks will find a way to present it.

02-04-2010, 11:37 AM	#20
Krystian Galaj Guru Posts: 820 Karma: 11012 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Warsaw, Poland Device: Bookeen Cybook	Apple using protected ePub is still better than them using completely proprietary format. Take for example Topaz, which doesn't contain the text inside it at all, it contains a series or small (often letter-sized) scan fragments, and instructions where to draw each scan fragment on the screen. Try to convert something like that to text now - doesn't matter if it's protected or not. It needs a whole new renderer. On the other hand, ePub is ePub, and whether it's protected by Adobe DRM, Apple DRM or B&N DRM, deep inside the operating system, once it's unprotected, it's all the same standard text. Single renderer can be used to display all three of them, once they have been unprotected. That means that an ePub renderer has been made by Apple for iPad, and it's very likely that they will use the same renderer to display unprotected ePubs, and that it will become a reference renderer all publishers will format their books to look good in. This is the one standard, that will simplify e-books algorithms and production methods a lot - even if it doesn't make e-books free.

02-04-2010, 11:58 AM	#22
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Actually, several of the ePub renderers (O'Rilley's Bookworm, ADE on the PC...) do support video. Just fyi. (Easiest way to do it? Flash) It's an XHTML wrapper, sheesh.

02-04-2010, 12:13 PM	#24
guyanonymous Guru Posts: 692 Karma: 27532 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Ebookwise 1150 / 1200	You presume that the free app will continue to be available now that Apple has their own product.

02-04-2010, 12:16 PM	#25
kilron Connoisseur Posts: 87 Karma: 150 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: iPod touch	this point has already been discussed a bit on the forum.... the answer is of course they will. and i believe its a very safe assumption. saying its not is simply fear-mongering. apple is not going to take away functionality that has already been well established. its just not going to happen. apple is also continually opening up more and more api's for developers and loosening restrictions. they're not going to take away the apps that are already there. they're simply going to make a better one that is integrated already with the device you purchase.

02-04-2010, 12:21 PM	#26
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	I would have paid an extra $150-odd (hah, and would buy an iPad) if it had an E-ink screen on the flip-side and a slip-cover system to protect the unused side. Um, don't we have an Apple forum where iPad stuff is now planted?

02-04-2010, 12:22 PM	#27
guyanonymous Guru Posts: 692 Karma: 27532 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Ebookwise 1150 / 1200	I really have trouble believing what they say until they actually do it. We'll see how it goes. I'm an equal opportunity corporate pessimist. As for Apple's protectionist policies, I'll take the evidence from the past over a promised change in the future - until I see otherwise.

02-04-2010, 12:28 PM	#29
kilron Connoisseur Posts: 87 Karma: 150 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: iPod touch	hmm.... i guess you could view it in different ways. apple is already saying that they're not going to pull the apps, so pulling them would be a change. they've said that virtually all of the apps currently available on the iPhone/iPod touch will be on the iPad. the only ones that won't are the ones requiring the phone capabilities in the iPhone. i guess i just don't see a point right now in thinking otherwise until we have some sort of proof or indication. know what i mean? these things are basically handheld computers. having a B&N and kindle app on there is a very good thing for apple and i don't think they see it as a direct hit to their revenue. i think they see it more as a bridge to their product. bring them in with the promise that its the only device that works with all of these different formats, and then show them how easy the new iBooks store is and how superior their reading applications is.

02-04-2010, 12:29 PM	#30
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	kjk - It's putting a load of mostly tiny image fragments together on the fly. Yes, it's sloooow for a reason.