Why the Foleo might succeed even though we don't like it

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by kickaha

One bit of information I haven't been able to find about the Foleo is a comprehensive list of the applications with which it will ship. Everything I see is so focused on email and web surfing that they don't discuss the applications that would really help make the Foleo useful as a device on it's own merits.

I did run across an article that said that the Foleo did not have the Palm PDA applications (calendar, contacts, To To, etc.).

[Gameboy70]

It synchs contacts, but not the rest of the Palm Desktop. Hopefully, that will be rectified before the product launches. If a proper Palm Desktop isn't available, then maybe Dataviz will release a Foleo version of Beyond Contacts, which is basically Outlook for the Palm.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Well, since it's supposed to connect to the smartphone, and presumably you have all of your PIM data on that... does it need to be in the Foleo? Maybe your e-mail address book, but not the rest...

[kickaha]

Well, since it's supposed to connect to the smartphone, and presumably you have all of your PIM data on that... does it need to be in the Foleo? Maybe your e-mail address book, but not the rest...

One of the key factors in the success of the original Palm Pilot was the Palm Desktop. The idea of having full synchronization between the portable unit and a unit with a large display and good input meant that you could run your contacts, your calendar and review notes from both your office and on the road. It was a brilliant concept, and one that hadn't been done well, if at all, before.

This really holds true for the Foleo as well. Even if you were to concede that it is a peripheral to your cell phone, what you (well, what I) really want is the ability to do anything related to PDA information management on either the smartphone or the Foleo, and then be able to sync it back up with the other side seamlessly whenever the two are in close proximity. Do you want to key in ten contacts on your Treo after a large meeting when the Foleo has a real keyboard? Do you want to use those contacts to re-schedule an entire week of activities that are affected by a critical business trip on the Treo, when The Foleo has a significantly larger screen, and that real keyboard? Wouldn't you like an instant-on note taking tool (with a real keyboard)?

I'd also like that extra step to be able to sync the Foleo to a true desktop machine (keeping something other than Outlook as an optional sync source, as I don't use Windows, perhaps the Palm Desktop package).

That way, in the office or on the road, the same data would be available no matter how I wanted to access it. I still use my Palm organizer that way, and would definitely use a Foleo just the same way.

[Gameboy70]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Well, since it's supposed to connect to the smartphone, and presumably you have all of your PIM data on that... does it need to be in the Foleo? Maybe your e-mail address book, but not the rest...

I'd really want a full PIM suite on the Foleo, for the same reason that Outlook integrates a PIM with an email client. If you get an email with some kind of actionable content -- a request for information, a document requiring feedback, an appointment -- you often need to make task and calendar entries, at least in the corporate environments for which the Foleo is the target demographic. Roughly two-thirds of my work arrives via email, and the Palm Desktop is an integral part of my workflow. I could input and review task and calendar entries on the Treo, but I'd much rather do it on a full size screen and keyboard.

Some people have argued that the Foleo should mirror whatever is on the Treo. I only argue the the Foleo should at a minimum support the desktop conduits Palm's provided for over a decade -- without require third-party solutions.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Okay, good point. When my PDA is sync'd, I update it by using Outlook on my PC... so I see what you mean.

[Gameboy70]

FYI, I attended the Foleo Sneak Preview this week at the Palm Retail Store in Los Angeles. I've posted my impression and photos on this TreoCentral forum thread.

[Bob Russell]

Originally Posted by Gameboy70

FYI, I attended the Foleo Sneak Preview this week at the Palm Retail Store in Los Angeles. I've posted my impression and photos on this TreoCentral forum thread.

Very nice early information Gameboy. Thanks.

Btw, there is a calendar (plus contacts and tasks) 3rd party application called mDayscape for Foleo from MotionApps...
http://www.motionapps.com/mdayscape/_palmfoleo.jsp
and it's reported to be available with the first day of the Foleo release.
(no surprise if people at Palm have really been carrying Foleos around for two years already!)

[Gameboy70]

That was one of the apps I tried, which was installed on one of the three Foleos. One Foleo had third party apps, the other two were al la carte. I'm not happy that mDayscape doesn't synch the memo conduit, but it least there will be some PIM available for the Foleo at launch. I've griped about that enough on the TC thread.

[Gameboy70]

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

(no surprise if people at Palm have really been carrying Foleos around for two years already!)

I wasn't surprised that people at Palm had be carrying around Foleos for two years. I was surprised that they had actually been using the thing for two years without seeing something as fundamental as PIM synchronization as a colossal omission. People were only doing email and document editing on it for two years? No one had the urge to see his or her calendar or task list on a larger screen? The Palm Desktop should have been a no-brainer.

My complaint wasn't that a PIM wouldn't be available. It was that it's not integral to the Foleo in ROM. Imagine buying a Treo, then having to buy the organizer functions.

[Bob Russell]

Good point. I picture the Foleo as approaching a Franklin Planner plus browser plus integration with smart phone. I think they probably found that executives were more likely to be interested in an email device than a "large PDA", so they seem to be steering away from that sort of comparison.

Personally, I see programs already to control your smart phone from a desktop computer. If smart phone applications (PalmOS or WinMobile) started to support larger screen sizes, then already the Foleo would be an amazing device. Especially as smart phones move past ARM processors to x86 architectures as early as next year. That's a direction I could get really excited about, with such a great form factor for the Foleo. No syncing, just use the smart phone apps either directly or through the Foleo. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the direction of Palm, partly because they can't control WinMobile, I suppose, and because it would be too easy to copy.

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

Good point. I picture the Foleo as approaching a Franklin Planner plus browser plus integration with smart phone. I think they probably found that executives were more likely to be interested in an email device than a "large PDA", so they seem to be steering away from that sort of comparison.

Personally, I see programs already to control your smart phone from a desktop computer. If smart phone applications (PalmOS or WinMobile) started to support larger screen sizes, then already the Foleo would be an amazing device. Especially as smart phones move past ARM processors to x86 architectures as early as next year. That's a direction I could get really excited about, with such a great form factor for the Foleo. No syncing, just use the smart phone apps either directly or through the Foleo. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the direction of Palm, partly because they can't control WinMobile, I suppose, and because it would be too easy to copy.

Since the phone is the physical link to the net it would be logical to see a very good integration between the two devices. It is clever of you to expect using the phone's apps from the Foleo but will they do it? That alone would be a good justification to acquire this combo.

[Gameboy70]

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

I picture the Foleo as approaching a Franklin Planner plus browser plus integration with smart phone. I think they probably found that executives were more likely to be interested in an email device than a "large PDA", so they seem to be steering away from that sort of comparison.

Clearly they were preoccupied with email, but even following that line of emphasis, Palm should have included a PIM. Emails often involve actions or projects that need to be entered on a calendar or task list, which is why Microsoft designed Outlook to integrate those functions. You can even drag email headers into the Tasks pane and make them tasks.

Blackberry users find their email volume increasing in proportion to their faster respose time. The problem is that thumb typing typically limits users to short replies. Hence the typical email from a Blackberry user being "I'll get back to you on that." So even though Blackberrys are ostensibly for email, they're really used like two-way pagers. The screen and the keyboard are bottlenecks to high-focus work. Obviously, there are power users who can make any interface work, but on average, when you need to sit down and do serious work, you need a tool better suited for heavy lifting than a Blackberry or Treo. So the Foleo is a much more appropriate device, and I understand that aspect of the focus on email.

I just disagree with some of the design priorities. But if mDayscape eventually supports Memos, or another Palm Desktop equivalent emerges from around the corner, I'll stop whining.

[beachwanderer]

For all those who share the now purely academic interest in what might have been:

German palm-collector OWL managed to get hold of a Foleo and lets us know about his insights into the device over here (review in german with pics). Alternative link here.