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Old 01-31-2010, 01:13 PM   #181
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There are many legal things you have to pay for

Have a look at this Wikipedia article (in Spanish).
Yeah, I figured it out (see post above).
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Old 01-31-2010, 02:14 PM   #182
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How can intellect be property?

"For those with a principled, libertarian view of property rights, it is obvious that patent and copyright laws are unjust and should be completely abolished."

Stephen Kinsella 2010

http://mises.org/daily/4018
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Old 01-31-2010, 02:20 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schex86 View Post
"For those with a principled, libertarian view of property rights, it is obvious that patent and copyright laws are unjust and should be completely abolished."

Stephen Kinsella 2010

http://mises.org/daily/4018
What? That makes no sense whatsoever. I'm libertarian very much so and I want my (property) rights protected not abolished.
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Old 01-31-2010, 02:21 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by schex86 View Post
"For those with a principled, libertarian view of property rights, it is obvious that patent and copyright laws are unjust and should be completely abolished."

Stephen Kinsella 2010

http://mises.org/daily/4018

Reformed, not abolished. They act as a carrot for the creation of I.P., and I am willing to pay for the results. Just not for life + x....
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:18 PM   #185
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Since change and the creation of new product occurs at a much faster rate now than ever before, AND the available market in which to sell these products has greatly expanded, wouldn't it make sense for copyright to be getting shorter as opposed to longer?

A copyright of 2 years would make me happy.
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:21 PM   #186
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Read the article. Various reforms/compromises are proposed. A shortened term of copyright, for one, is easily justifiable.
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:22 PM   #187
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:30 PM   #188
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Also, being a libertarian doesn't mean I have to have the same viewpoint on IP as you do, and vice versa.

It is the crony capitalism I take issue with. As I've said before, I never agreed to any IP contract, so why should I be held accountable for it? If you want to involve people, follow the proper course. Don't legislate your "property" ad infinitum, violating every single term of the original contract along the way.
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:34 PM   #189
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Perhaps when the contract (copyright at time of purchase) is changed on consumers, companies should have to
a)repurchase, at full price, the product from any consumers who do not agree to this change or
b)allow the consumer to keep functioning under the original contract (copyright at tim
e of purchase)?
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:42 PM   #190
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No guyanonymous, that would be "stealing".
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Old 01-31-2010, 04:09 PM   #191
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Schex? What would be stealing? Expecting a bookseller who sold me a book in 1980 under the understanding that in X years I could do whatever I wanted with the contents (i.e., copyright would be expired) to buy back to book if they wanted to change that contract?
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Old 01-31-2010, 04:18 PM   #192
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Imagine if a country, like Cuba, decided to take a "different" view on copyright duration. And then open an Internet based eMedia superstore.

This could seriously challenge those that attempt to take copyright to levels of absurdity.

The government grants creators rights. The media industries NEED the government to survive. And it is important to our society that people who create music, books, and video are given rights.

But, it is now out of balance.
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Old 01-31-2010, 04:25 PM   #193
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"the compulsive collectors who download and re-share without ever reading one"

That's an interesting phenomenon because those kinds of people don't really count as 'lost sales'. When there is an abundance of resources (ebooks, mp3s etc), people who don't really 'want' the material and would never pay for it still collect it. The rush they feel for getting something which society places value on for free is some kind of psychological rush.

I should know, I used to download/collect movies for that reason. Lots of the films I would never watch, I'd just burn them to DVD so 'one day' I could watch them. End result, a few hundred DVDs covered in dust, unwatched. Now you can buy a movie from itunes very easily, and I cant be bothered downloading some crappy quality CAM version of a movie. I just wait and get it in 1080p direct to computer. I also don't collect/save movies now because I know in 10 years time we will have fibre to home, we will be able to buy media at very cheap prices and a full movie will download in 30 seconds.
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Old 01-31-2010, 05:27 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugazied View Post
"the compulsive collectors who download and re-share without ever reading one"

That's an interesting phenomenon because those kinds of people don't really count as 'lost sales'. When there is an abundance of resources (ebooks, mp3s etc), people who don't really 'want' the material and would never pay for it still collect it. The rush they feel for getting something which society places value on for free is some kind of psychological rush.

I should know, I used to download/collect movies for that reason. Lots of the films I would never watch, I'd just burn them to DVD so 'one day' I could watch them. End result, a few hundred DVDs covered in dust, unwatched. Now you can buy a movie from itunes very easily, and I cant be bothered downloading some crappy quality CAM version of a movie. I just wait and get it in 1080p direct to computer. I also don't collect/save movies now because I know in 10 years time we will have fibre to home, we will be able to buy media at very cheap prices and a full movie will download in 30 seconds.
I wonder how common this compulsive "hoarding" type of behaviour really is though.

Hoarding and other compulsive behaviours are actual psychological disorders. Being "disorders", these behaviours are not considered the norm and are comparatively rare in the "real world".

Yet when file-sharing is discussed these supposed masses of hoarders and compulsive downloaders who would never buy the material, never even read the books etc are brought up as if they are the norm rather than the exception.

Just as the idea that every download is a lost sale has no basis in reality, I'm sure the idea that the majority, or even any significant portion, of downloaders are simply hoarders who would never use the downloaded material has no basis in reality either.

Cheers,
PKFFW
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Old 01-31-2010, 05:38 PM   #195
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Hoarding and other compulsive behaviours are actual psychological disorders. Being "disorders", these behaviours are not considered the norm and are comparatively rare in the "real world".
It doesn't matter how common the thing being studied is in general if you're only studying a subset of the population. Consider: smoking crack cocaine is a disorder, not considered normative behaviour, and comparatively rare in the 'real world'; it is, however, extremely common behaviour in crack houses.

When you're talking about how many file-sharers are compulsive hoarders, it really doesn't matter what percentage of the non-file-sharing population are compulsive hoarders. And I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that the percentages are much, much higher than the norm in the file-sharing group.
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