My Kingdom for a camel!

[Verencat]

Originally Posted by Katti's Cat

So, while you and I applaud Happy with trying and so far succeeding to quit (and I hope you make it) I am getting rather over the 'Smoker bashing' here.

I don't call non-smokers names nor say they are anti-social (well I kind of just have). I accept their choices and applaud their wisdom to stop or never have started. I just wish, non-smokers would show me the same tolerance.

Oh, dear, I'm sorry you feel like this! I don't think any of us intended to bash smokers, but quiting is so hard, and it gets tremendously easier when you convince yourself that you are defeating an personal evil enemy, smoking.

Smokers aren't anti-social (believe me, I'm the girl who lost all her social circle at work when she quit), but smoking...well it is an anti-social habit. It kills, you, me, everyone around us. It imposes a weight on the health system, since smoking related diseases are so common. It stinks (come on now, it really does!).

I do respect you, and many, many other smokers, otherwise I would also have to hate myself for having smoked. But bashing the habit is, for me, necessary. Just like I'm currently bashing over-eating and under-exercising...but one demon at a time, please!

[dreams]

Originally Posted by happy_terd

I made it a whole week...

I am now officially a nonsmoker.


Thanks for all of the support people.

Congratulations! You are well on your well to the one month mark!

[happy_terd]

Man I hope so.

1 day
1 week
1 month (next goal)

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by happy_terd

Man I hope so.

1 day
1 week
1 month (next goal)

That's the ticket, man! And just remember, every time you don't smoke you deprive one of those murderous fat-cats from the tobacco industry just a little of the money they would have earned from you. That's one of the things that got me through, imagining that they would suffer, that and thinking of my fifty-year old uncle dying of lung cancer and still, with only weeks left of his life, putting the horrible things into his mouth. *shudder*

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Katti's Cat

I have to disagree on that. It is not anti-social, quite the opposite. As smoker (yep I failed a few times giving up) I always meet people from the building I work in and chat. I always know what's going on in the building and with other companies - I love gathering information.

I have also never heard a smoker abuse a non-smoker. Might be the company I keep but nevertheless. I did get abused my non-smokers who joined a group in the smoking department, telling us all to stop smoking because she was there now!!!!

Most smokers I know are considerate enough to acknowledge non-smokers and move aside or even leave the room to smoke. Funny, how the parties in our house always end up outdoors including the majority of people that are non-smokers. And sorry, I can't move further outside than outside.

Yes, there are smokers who are dropping the butts on the ground - SHAME ON THEM. Neither me nor my husband belong to that category, we have pocket ashtrays.


Lets not forget the amount of extra taxes smokers contribute. And the jobs. You might all not like smokers, and yes, smoking might kill you one day, but why do you think smoking hasn't been outlawed yet? Because of the taxes and attached infrastructure. No country can yet afford to do that. Sick smokers are a drain on the health system you say? Yes sure, but only because the tobacco taxes we are paying is used elsewhere. If Australia would have used those taxes and put them into the healthsystem, it would be the best in the world. And I am sure that goes for other countries as well.

To combat the changed smoking rules / laws here in Australia we now have GST. And there is already a whisper of increasing those (admittedly it's only a pathetic 10% atm) due to so many people stopping.

So, while you and I applaud Happy with trying and so far succeeding to quit (and I hope you make it) I am getting rather over the 'Smoker bashing' here.

I don't call non-smokers names nor say they are anti-social (well I kind of just have). I accept their choices and applaud their wisdom to stop or never have started. I just wish, non-smokers would show me the same tolerance.

That's exactly the same reaction I had when I was smoking. And I wasn't any kind of social smoker, that's just a lie we all tell ourselves. It's an addiction, plain and simple. A stupid habit that we take up because we're lacking something else in our lives. If you were in a leprosy ward because you had rotting sores would you think it social because you were meeting other people with leprosy? No, no way. The addiction makes us defensive, it makes us irrational. By the time I quit I was chain-smoking 100 a day. One...hundred...cigarettes....a....day. There's nothing social about visibly killing yourself in front of everyone who loves you. What there is, is plenty of stupidity, plenty of stubbornness, and plenty of irrationality. Just like the heroin addict and the crack fiend, the meth sniffer and all the rest, we tell ourselves lies to get through, to ignore the fact that we're being used and abused by the corporate schmucks who convince us to pay for the privileged of killing ourselves.

Telling ourselves lies or getting defensive is no use. From one smoker to another, get rid of the monkey on your back before you end up watching someone you love using one of their last breaths to take in nicotine.

[Katti's Cat]

Originally Posted by Verencat

Oh, dear, I'm sorry you feel like this! I don't think any of us intended to bash smokers, but quiting is so hard, and it gets tremendously easier when you convince yourself that you are defeating an personal evil enemy, smoking.

I do know that, but I really felt I had to say something. And believe me, I know how hard giving up is - I've tried a few times (unsuccessfully unfortunately) myself. I know I will try again. Just need to be in the right mental state for it.

Originally Posted by Moejoe

... It's an addiction, plain and simple. A stupid habit that we take up because we're lacking something else in our lives.

Not quite - it was just the 'done' thing to smoke when I started (at the ripe age of 12) - all the kids I hung out with smoked. What did I know then.


And yes, I agree. Smoking might kill you one day. I know it is not healthy. But then again, so are drugs (you mentioned them). But what about alcohol (drink driver killing - plenty of them), obesity (not very healthy and not nice to look at either - are we calling obese people antisocial?), gun laws that allow people to have guns in their homes so they can take them out and go to schools?

There are many examples. I am not defending smoking. Any adult that has a few working braincells knows that it might kill. But why hone in on smokers, bash them around the head - find another target. Go after the alcoholics, the over eaters, the people who take drugs etc. Did I mention all the big cars, pumping exhaust fumes in the air? The list goes on and on.

And I am not defending smoking, it's filthy & unhealthy just my right to choose to be a smoker. Yes, I want to give it away - one day I will. Until then, I defend my right to kill myself any which way I wish.


And anyone who has never lit up - kudus for you. You have saved yourself heaps of money and grief and the agonising process of giving up.

And anyone who has given up successfully - good on you. It's a hard road and not easy to beat a lifelong addiction.

PS: HAPPY YOU CAN DO IT

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Katti's Cat

I do know that, but I really felt I had to say something. And believe me, I know how hard giving up is - I've tried a few times (unsuccessfully unfortunately) myself. I know I will try again. Just need to be in the right mental state for it.

I think people need to understand that everyone has a different level of "addiction tolerance"

Now.......my husband quit smoking cold turkey after 37 yrs, the last 10 were spent consuming 4 packs a day. Just put the pack down, and said "no more" He wasn't grumpy, he didn't show any signs of withdrawal. He really can't understand why most people can't do it like he did.

I personally don't think its a simple "mind over matter" problem.

I think it is, for some peoples system, a true addiction, like drugs.

My mother smoked all her life. Even at the end, dying of emphysema, hooked up to an oxygen tank 24/7, she kept looking for her 'smokes.'

I have a deep respect for those who can quit ..........and a deep understanding for those who keep trying, but need more help than over the counter aids.

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by Katti's Cat

Until then, I defend my right to kill myself any which way I wish.

As a lifelong non-smoker, I agree but with one proviso - and that is if your smoking is causing some-one else actual harm (*). By which I mean smoking in front of some-one who has respiratory problems f'r example (but only, obviously, if you are aware of such); not mental distress to those who don't like you smoking.

The whole smoking/alcohol/other drugs thing is an area that can get me quite riled up. The whole thing as it sits within the law (certainly in the UK) is a large, hypocritical mess. It seems that drugs are categorised depending on what public opinion is more than what scientific evidence says.

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

My mother smoked all her life. Even at the end, dying of emphysema, hooked up to an oxygen tank 24/7, she kept looking for her 'smokes.'

How on earth did you deal with that? (I'm asking partly for selfish reasons, as I strongly suspect that's what awaits both my parents. Both have smoked all their lives, both have tried countless times and using countless methods to give up, & both have COPD (one has both chronic bronchitis & emphysema, the other chronic bronchitis and poss. emphysema))

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

How on earth did you deal with that? (I'm asking partly for selfish reasons, as I strongly suspect that's what awaits both my parents. Both have smoked all their lives, both have tried countless times and using countless methods to give up, & both have COPD (one has both chronic bronchitis & emphysema, the other chronic bronchitis and poss. emphysema))

Not well. The last 2 months, she was home with me, and of course, there are other, related health issues....a home care nurse came in three times weekly to make sure she was "comfortable". Crap.

Its an ugly, slow, painful death, and the only positive thing to come out of it was a certainty my daughter, who was 13 at the time, would never go near a cigarette. I had already learned that growing up in a house reeking of stale smoke and overflowing ashtrays.

You deal with it one day at a time. Like everything else. Death was a welcome release, to her, and, to my shame, myself. She was a product of her generation.......born in 1923, by the 40's everyone was smoking......it was 'sexy', 'cool', all the movie stars did it in the movies....it was a social thing. Good grief. Look at this ad from Life Magazine, 1936. A cigarette after every frickin' course!! "Helps Digestion!!" Someone should be shot.



I know that smoking isn't responsible for every case of lung cancer, or emphysema. But it sure increases your chances.

[pshrynk]

I once went to my favorite French restaurant in Ohio when I was stationed there. They did not have a no-smoking policy. Two guys came in and sat at the far end of the small dining area and lit up as soon as they sat down and did not stop smoking the entire time they were there. I could hardly taste the really quite expensive meal I was not, at that time, enjoying. I told the owner to let me know when he had changed his policy on smokins so taht I would consider coming back.

[Sparrow]

We used to go to a restaurant for work Christmas meals. People used to light up as soon as they'd finished eating; even if other people hadn't.
It was ghastly, but I'd grit my teeth and tell myself it was just once a year.
Hard to believe that was only a few years ago; seems like the dark ages looking back now.

[mores]

I think non-smokers are more relaxed about smokers than ex-smokers. Once they get a whiff ...

Then again, I always wonder why smokers think it's okay to enter rooms with a smoke.
Or the tram operator who's too cold to step outside while in the waiting area, standing on the steps of his tram and smoking, all the smoke flowing INSIDE the compartment ...

My son's in the hospital at the moment, I stay with him during the night and most of the day. There's another parent tending to her kid, and I noticed that one certain area of the hospital wing had an extreme "ck one" reek to it. Turns out she's a smoker, goes outside to get her fix, then she sprays herself with unisex cologne to try and mask the smell. Now her child will smell cigarette smoke AND become nauseous from the perfume

It's on your skin, your breath, your clothes, it stains your fingers ...

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by mores

My son's in the hospital at the moment, I stay with him during the night and most of the day. There's another parent tending to her kid, and I noticed that one certain area of the hospital wing had an extreme "ck one" reek to it. Turns out she's a smoker, goes outside to get her fix, then she sprays herself with unisex cologne to try and mask the smell. Now her child will smell cigarette smoke AND become nauseous from the perfume

It's on your skin, your breath, your clothes, it stains your fingers ...

Heres best wishes for a speedy recovery for your son. Must be so scary for both of you.

Smokers sense of smell is dulled, which is why they can't understand why people object to beinging near them sometimes. Yeah......lovely smell. stale smoke and stinky perfume. Ick.

[devilsadvocate]

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

The whole smoking/alcohol/other drugs thing is an area that can get me quite riled up. The whole thing as it sits within the law (certainly in the UK) is a large, hypocritical mess. It seems that drugs are categorised depending on what public opinion is more than what scientific evidence says.

Rest assured, it's the same in the U.S., with "public opinion" often interchangeable with "pandering special-interest groups". You can risk your life with the side-effects of mind-altering drugs if they're prescribed by a doctor, but you can't do the same with the drugs you can (theoretically) grow in your back yard.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Katti's Cat

I have to disagree on that. It is not anti-social, quite the opposite. As smoker (yep I failed a few times giving up) I always meet people from the building I work in and chat. I always know what's going on in the building and with other companies - I love gathering information.

I have also never heard a smoker abuse a non-smoker. Might be the company I keep but nevertheless. I did get abused my non-smokers who joined a group in the smoking department, telling us all to stop smoking because she was there now!!!!

Most smokers I know are considerate enough to acknowledge non-smokers and move aside or even leave the room to smoke. Funny, how the parties in our house always end up outdoors including the majority of people that are non-smokers. And sorry, I can't move further outside than outside.

Yes, there are smokers who are dropping the butts on the ground - SHAME ON THEM. Neither me nor my husband belong to that category, we have pocket ashtrays.


Lets not forget the amount of extra taxes smokers contribute. And the jobs. You might all not like smokers, and yes, smoking might kill you one day, but why do you think smoking hasn't been outlawed yet? Because of the taxes and attached infrastructure. No country can yet afford to do that. Sick smokers are a drain on the health system you say? Yes sure, but only because the tobacco taxes we are paying is used elsewhere. If Australia would have used those taxes and put them into the healthsystem, it would be the best in the world. And I am sure that goes for other countries as well.

To combat the changed smoking rules / laws here in Australia we now have GST. And there is already a whisper of increasing those (admittedly it's only a pathetic 10% atm) due to so many people stopping.

So, while you and I applaud Happy with trying and so far succeeding to quit (and I hope you make it) I am getting rather over the 'Smoker bashing' here.

I don't call non-smokers names nor say they are anti-social (well I kind of just have). I accept their choices and applaud their wisdom to stop or never have started. I just wish, non-smokers would show me the same tolerance.

Geeze, lighten up, will you? I was just using that as a build-up to a lame joke. For the record, I don't give a crap if the whole goddamn world smokes; but if someone wants to quit, I will be there to offer encouragement. All I'm really saying is that if you're going to put something in your lungs that could have a detrimental effect on your health, it should at least improve the quality of your stereo.

Sit down and have a smoke, Katti. You need a break!