Geographic restrictions inside EU (?)

[omk3]

Originally Posted by K-Thom

@ omk3: I'm doing some pb covers, and my contracts only allow the distribution of a printed version in German-speaking countries. If the publisher should ever consider a foreign-language edition in another country, he'd have to get my permission first or get a new cover.
He'd even need it if he wanted to do an eBook version in Germany. Greedy little me, but that's the limitations I put in my contracts.

Yes, if the publisher should ever consider a foreign-language edition in another country, sure, he'd have to get your permission, stands to reason!
But what about this same german edition, being available in non-german speaking countries?

I read somewhere (I cannot remember where) that a copyright model based on language rather than region would make better sense. One publisher/distributor is responsible for the english language edition worldwide, one for the german edition, and so on. I like this idea a lot. If there are differences between american and british editions, then sure, two people could have the rights to each one. And each reader could choose for themselves the version they want to read, regardless of where they live.

[K-Thom]

Sounds like a good idea, especially for digital goods like eBooks.

For tangible objects it does make sense to licence them to a certain region i.e. legal system. Imagine a U.S. based publisher who would like to distribute his books to all English speaking countries. He would need branches in each countries, distributors, lawyers, accountants, etc. etc.
It's much easier and cheaper to offer licences to interested associated publishers in other countries.

But then, that's true for printed books. No need to stick to that rule for a digital edition.

[omk3]

Originally Posted by K-Thom

...
For tangible objects it does make sense to licence them to a certain region i.e. legal system. Imagine a U.S. based publisher who would like to distribute his books to all English speaking countries. He would need branches in each countries, distributors, lawyers, accountants, etc. etc.
It's much easier and cheaper to offer licences to interested associated publishers in other countries.

I don't claim that one publisher should necessarily set up worldwide distribution channels for tangible objects of course. But why refuse to send these objects worldwide by mail/courier, especially if they are not available in the region of the buyer any other way? (see my waterstones and sony example in the original post)

[Sullivan]

Originally Posted by omk3

I don't claim that one publisher should necessarily set up worldwide distribution channels for tangible objects of course. But why refuse to send these objects worldwide by mail/courier, especially if they are not available in the region of the buyer any other way? (see my waterstones and sony example in the original post)

I agree with this, restrictions are always preventing people for achieving and receiving what they require. There is no reason why they should not send these objects worldwide.

[asjogren]

Are these geographic "issues" binding on the customer? For example, there is nothing stopping me from buying a book while traveling - regardless if the publisher has the rights in my home country.

"Traveling" via the Internet seems no different. If the seller verifies by IP address - there are ways around that. If one needs a "local" address - I bet some enterprising person will find a way to lease one real Post Office Box to 10,000 internet subscribers. If one needs a local debit card.....

This is a lost cause for the publishers. Like selling road maps if every car has a GPS mapping system.

The only viable option left to divide the market distribution is one previously discussed: By language.

[Pardoz]

Originally Posted by asjogren

If one needs a "local" address - I bet some enterprising person will find a way to lease one real Post Office Box to 10,000 internet subscribers.

Already exists: http://www.borderlinx.com/, and it's free (well, free to sign up and generate a real address and phone number - they only charge you if you actually have something shipped through them. So if all you need is a US mailing address/phone number to register with online merchants...)

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by asjogren

Are these geographic "issues" binding on the customer?

I seriously doubt it.

The restrictions are merely a matter of contract between the publisher and the author (or the publisher and the retailer? I'm not sure). In any case, they are not law. Nor are they part of the contract between the retailer and the customer.

[omk3]

Originally Posted by Mike L

I seriously doubt it.

The restrictions are merely a matter of contract between the publisher and the author (or the publisher and the retailer? I'm not sure). In any case, they are not law. Nor are they part of the contract between the retailer and the customer.

That may be, but some retailers don't take kindly to you trying to pretend you are somewhere else. Take a look at this thread for example https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...mazon+passport for an amazon reaction to exactly this issue...

[asjogren]

Thanks for the link to Borderlinx.com. I guess what we need is a website that lists these services by country. MobileRead would be an excellent place for this information.

"Tear down this wall!"
Probably the ONLY statement I ever agreed with Mr. Ronald Reagan.

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by Sullivan

I agree with this, restrictions are always preventing people for achieving and receiving what they require. There is no reason why they should not send these objects worldwide.

Customs. This probably isn't important with books, but you do realize that customs doesn't simply return shipments that can't be legally brought into a country? Or maybe some do-I'm not by any means an expert, but I do know that in some cases they seize them instead.

As I said, this probably isn't important with a relatively low-cost item like books, but for high-cost items many companies contract with an in-country wholesaler. The wholesaler is then responsible for getting the shipment thru customs-the wholesaler pays whether the shipment is seized (or simply disappears, as has been known to happen in some countries) or not.

[omk3]

Sure, but this thread is specifically about EU, and there are no customs within EU, are there?

By the way I only (scarcely) know how customs work in Greece. Many friends have ordered products from the US, some of these products were stopped by customs and some weren't. For the ones that were stopped, the buyer had to go to the airport, pay the customs and get the package. The company (and I'm talking about companies, not ebay sellers for example) had nothing to do with the package after it reached the country, the customs were not their responsibility.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by omk3

Sure, but this thread is specifically about EU, and there are no customs within EU, are there?

By the way I only (scarcely) know how customs work in Greece. Many friends have ordered products from the US, some of these products were stopped by customs and some weren't. For the ones that were stopped, the buyer had to go to the airport, pay the customs and get the package. The company (and I'm talking about companies, not ebay sellers for example) had nothing to do with the package after it reached the country, the customs were not their responsibility.

That's the normal way in Spain too.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by omk3

That may be, but some retailers don't take kindly to you trying to pretend you are somewhere else. Take a look at this thread for example https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...mazon+passport for an amazon reaction to exactly this issue...

About this mail, I couldn't understand it because of different reasons and, at the end, I think the problem isn't the publisher but you're downloading your books directly to you Kindle, so Amazon has to pay connection , but perhaps I'm wrong.

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by omk3

Sure, but this thread is specifically about EU, and there are no customs within EU, are there?

By the way I only (scarcely) know how customs work in Greece. Many friends have ordered products from the US, some of these products were stopped by customs and some weren't. For the ones that were stopped, the buyer had to go to the airport, pay the customs and get the package. The company (and I'm talking about companies, not ebay sellers for example) had nothing to do with the package after it reached the country, the customs were not their responsibility.

I don't know for sure about EU. Generally, my understanding is that you're correct, but there could be specific exceptions-and, WRT Greek customs, what happens if the buyer doesn't pay the customs? Or, more relevant to what I was describing, if it's not a matter of customs duty, but of it being illegal to import the article? I guess the question is, who's responsible for ensuring that it's legal to import the article into the country? Another way of putting it is, who's responsible for ensuring that it's legal to sell the product to the buyer?

In the case of geographical restrictions on books, it appears that the publishers are being held responsible. Personally, I'm not sure that's right, but that does appear to be the way it is.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by asjogren

Are these geographic "issues" binding on the customer?

In the UK? I have a written legal opinion saying "yes" (Essentially, you are misrepresenting yourself as someone who meets the publisher's conditions for downloading the book when you're not, so your copy is de-facto unauthorised and there's some additional issues concerning circumventing "access measures" which are technically offences - this is based on UK copyright and computer law, check your own local laws etc.).