Apple Tablet -- Who needs it?

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If this tablet does come out for real and won't last at least 8 hours when all you are doing is reading, then it will be a terrible reader.

I don't agree. While it might make a terrible reader for you, it might still be a great reader for somebody else. Just because you demand a large battery duration doesn't mean everybody needs a large battery duration. I'd be very happy if a tablet I bought would last 8 hours if only reading and would count it amongst the best readers I can have.

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Childish, no. But it is in direct response to the wave of "i"s and "e"s in front of every computer they made. It started with the iMac.
Granted their effort of making a computer in a box that you just plugged in was laudable but they went overboard treating the public like... children. If they had made one computer like that it would have been okay but they insisted with repeated waves of those, like we're all unsufferable iDiots.

Writing it aPple is like a polite manifestation against that repeated repeated repeated (sorry) marketing ploy... and it's still going on. iSlate/ iTablet? they're still at it you know...

You could just apply the rules correctly too... So, Apple, Ipod, Itouch, Islate, Itablet, Imac...

[Mitchll]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Childish, no. But it is in direct response to the wave of "i"s and "e"s in front of every computer they made. It started with the iMac.
Granted their effort of making a computer in a box that you just plugged in was laudable but they went overboard treating the public like... children. If they had made one computer like that it would have been okay but they insisted with repeated waves of those, like we're all unsufferable iDiots.

Writing it aPple is like a polite manifestation against that repeated repeated repeated (sorry) marketing ploy... and it's still going on. iSlate/ iTablet? they're still at it you know...

To paraphrase, no one ever went broke or lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of the public.

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by Mitchll

To paraphrase, no one ever went broke or lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of the public.

That's a good one Mitchll.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I don't agree. While it might make a terrible reader for you, it might still be a great reader for somebody else. Just because you demand a large battery duration doesn't mean everybody needs a large battery duration. I'd be very happy if a tablet I bought would last 8 hours if only reading and would count it amongst the best readers I can have.

The reason I asked is because the latest MacbookPro (I know you won't buy Apple )was tested with simple web browsing and music playing, and lasted...8 hours in real world testing-which sounds similar to just reading text to me. That is with a 15" LCD with LED backlighting at 50% brightness and wifi on.

So I definitely think its achievable with a Tablet today...and HP is using similar batteries as Apple in some of their products.

[DawnFalcon]

Yes, and you can get the same out of MUCH cheaper Asus laptops, if a LCD screen is a requirement. I'm far more impressed with Asus's hardware work than Apple's lately...

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by kjk

So I definitely think its achievable with a Tablet today...and HP is using similar batteries as Apple in some of their products.

Oh, I couldn't agree more! The early tablets were just ahead of their time, I think. The batteries have been improved enormously and so have touch screens. If you look at computer development these days, it's not so much speed increases as effeciency increases that is more important.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Oh, I couldn't agree more! The early tablets were just ahead of their time, I think. The batteries have been improved enormously and so have touch screens. If you look at computer development these days, it's not so much speed increases as effeciency increases that is more important.

Unfortunately, battery technology has only improved marginally over the years. Longer battery life came largely due to lower power components and power management. While everything else has increased potentially, battery output per pound is not that much better than 5 years ago. And I don't see any revolutionary development on the horizon. So we can go from 4 hours to 8 hours (partially by turning down brightness, spinning down hard disks -- or get the super expensive new disks, and limiting processor speeds, etc. All that, however, affects performance) but 2 days or more is just not in the cards for the next few years for a tablet.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Unfortunately, battery technology has only improved marginally over the years. Longer battery life came largely due to lower power components and power management. While everything else has increased potentially, battery output per pound is not that much better than 5 years ago. On I don't see any revolutionary development on the horizon. So we can go from 4 hours to 8 hours (partially by turning down brightness, spinning down hard disks -- or get the super expensive new disks, and limiting processor speeds, etc. All that, however, affects performance) but 2 days or more is just not in the cards for the next few years for a tablet.

I don't think anybody who wants a tablet is expecting 2 days or more. I think most are more than happy with an 8 hour life span.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I don't think anybody who wants a tablet is expecting 2 days or more. I think most are more than happy with an 8 hour life span.

Well, 8 hours while turning the screen brightness way down and putting the processor in slow mode for reading should be possible with current technology. But the battery must be pretty big and heavy and performance of such a device will be anything but "smoking".

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Unfortunately, battery technology has only improved marginally over the years.

Um. Not really true. NiCad's energy density (MJ/kg) is ~0.15, NiMH batteries over doubled that, and Lithium Ion batteries can easily add half again over NiMH. There are trials with various materials right now which will add even more.

This isn't minimising things like intelligent cell-balancing, which has come into its own in recent years, but there have been advances in the basic medium as well - and fully working Lithium Air batteries have now been demonstrated.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Um. Not really true. NiCad's energy density (MJ/kg) is ~0.15, NiMH batteries over doubled that, and Lithium Ion batteries can easily add half again over NiMH. There are trials with various materials right now which will add even more.

This isn't minimising things like intelligent cell-balancing, which has come into its own in recent years, but there have been advances in the basic medium as well - and fully working Lithium Air batteries have now been demonstrated.

You are right, there have been some advances. But compare that to the advances in processing power, hard disk, and RAM sizes over the same period, for example. Those and other things have increased 10 fold or more.

And we will get incrementally better this and next year. But a lot of us are looking for a tablet that holds a charge for, at the very least, several days when used as a reader (since we compare it to the convenience we enjoy with current e-ink devices). So it is not easy to be satisfied with tablets at this point when the primary purpose of using one will be reading -- unless you are just using it at home.

[donovan1983]

I have a Mac mini and an iPhone and am extremely happy with both. In fact, it's been a very long time since I have been as satisfied with a mobile phone as I have been with the iPhone. The iTunes store is pretty much my exclusive source of music anymore. But I couldn't care less about the iUnicorn. My iPhone is pretty much a tablet PC for me as it is and whatever I can't do on it I can do on my Acer netbook. For reading tasks my Sony Reader suits me perfectly both in readability and in ergonomics. Unless Apple is unveiling something to do with enhancements to the iPhone software or to the iTunes store, their rumoured event will be a non-event to me.

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Um. Not really true. NiCad's energy density (MJ/kg) is ~0.15, NiMH batteries over doubled that, and Lithium Ion batteries can easily add half again over NiMH. There are trials with various materials right now which will add even more.

This isn't minimising things like intelligent cell-balancing, which has come into its own in recent years, but there have been advances in the basic medium as well - and fully working Lithium Air batteries have now been demonstrated.

great summary and info there...thanks because batteries simply confuse me so I only tend to glance at the highlights...

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I don't think anybody who wants a tablet is expecting 2 days or more. I think most are more than happy with an 8 hour life span.

Actually I for one would be far from happy with only 8hrs...with new batteries for my 17" laptop I get between 10-14hrs of working time and that is using wireless but on low power Tx and the backlight turned down a fair amount but still readable w/o eye strain from being too dim...then again a full set of batteries for this beastie cost around $350-$400. Still, for the first time I might actually pop for new batteries rather than a new laptop as this thing has all the power I need and all I foresee needing for a number of years to come. My plan is to push many tasks like research, reading, email and even browsing for work and fun, onto a slate style device leaving the heavy lifting to the laptop. So, I do expect a minimum of 12-40hrs from a fully charged (set) of new batteries or battery...the low power yet powerful components exist to make those expectations reasonable today.

Yet at the same time I am not going to pay more for one of these tablet/slates than I can buy a new laptop for because to me a convertible laptop (not a netbook unless it's a 10" or larger and running Win7) which runs for 6-8hrs on a new battery is a better deal than a slate-type device of the same price even if it runs for 40hrs. I expect to pay proportionally less because of the more limited range of functions...I am only looking at my needs for business and not as some sort of just fun toy.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Childish, no....

Writing it aPple is like a polite manifestation against that repeated repeated repeated (sorry) marketing ploy... and it's still going on. iSlate/ iTablet? they're still at it you know...

Uhm..., it's called branding....

No different, than naming your company Yahoo, or Google. Or having a cute mobileread logo.

I don't understand why Apple keeps getting attacked for its good design and intuitive UI. I get it, that some love dressing up from K-Mart, or love velvet paintings better than Miro, or prefer pulp-fiction paperbacks to hardcovers, but why this urge to sneer at good design?

It reminds me of the similar attacks on models by the likes of Rosie O'Donnell - ah, they are too thin, must be anorexic, my husband like some meat, etc....

But the fact is, models get paid for a good reason, and Apple has a following for a good reason, too.

And yeah, I personally can't wait to see what they bring to market. Cheers.