What is with these Publishers?

[zacheryjensen]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Funny, Baen seem to be doing just fine at ebook prices considerably lower than $9.99. For every single book. Hm, is that... smoke? From which orifice?

That's a catastrophe of a comparison. Baen isn't even remotely similar to a major publisher that makes its profits through the blockbuster sales model. All that Baen sells is niche fiction from authors that are happy to accept a pittance compared to the "superstar" authors (whom I don't intend to credit as good, but frankly the general consumer-base is what decides this, not coherent critics) that will demand huge payouts or just take their business elsewhere, or retire, whatever.

Now I've got nothing against Baen and what they stand for and sell. I'm all for the "little guy" and despise DRM. But this issue is blind to the niche markets, it's about the popular major markets, and Baen simply has no presence there at all.

The upside is that if the blockbuster business model fails and big pubs crash because of it, chances are, Baen will not be affected in any major way. So if you like what they deliver, then rest easy.

[DawnFalcon]

Of course not, a successful and growing book company couldn't be in any way comparable to other book companies, no. Of course not. I mean, it's not like they have several authors who hit the NYT bestsellers list on a regular basis, pay authors high royalties...

If other book companies have made themselves utterly reliant on a few blockbuster authors rather than making a deacent profit across their range, then they are the ones with the broken, unsustainable business model, NOT BAEN.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by zacheryjensen

Now I've got nothing against Baen and what they stand for and sell. I'm all for the "little guy" and despise DRM. But this issue is blind to the niche markets, it's about the popular major markets, and Baen simply has no presence there at all.

The popular major markets are running into many of the same problems that the RIAA faces: digital distribution has changed the way they can effectively do business. The model that worked very well 15 years ago is no longer as useful, and its efficacy shrinks every day as more people get online and bandwidth and storage space get cheaper.

It's likely that there is an effective way to manage a publishing house that focuses on a handful of blockbuster sellers, and churns out hundreds of books by other authors whose careers they're not nearly as interested in promoting. However, that won't be by limiting public access to the big-name authors' works in order to get profit from the format they'd like to be their big seller.

It'll be a while before the mainstream public is comfortable with ebooks, and longer still until those are the majority. But it will happen... and the longer big publishers delay in accepting that, the more their competition will take over their market share.

20 years from now, I expect plenty of people to read books on paper. After all, radio didn't die when TV came out, nor even when it got really, really popular. But TV did kill the radio serial story, and we may see pop fiction novels almost vanish from print.

[queentess]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

zacheryjensen - The mass market won't wait, they'll simply go to the darknets. Same if it's priced identically to the hardback. Again, why does every industry have to learn the music industry's lessons the hard way?

Take, for instance, my recent experience with Tor releasing the newest Wheel of Time novel by Robert Jordan/Brandon Sanderson. The hardback came out and I went to Tor's website to ask about the release date for the ebook. I was told the ebook would not be published for a YEAR. Now, why would I wait a year for an ebook when it's available now on the darknet? Publisher just screwed themselves (and their author) out of a sale. And now I buy all Tor books second hand or pirated.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by queentess

The hardback came out and I went to Tor's website to ask about the release date for the ebook. I was told the ebook would not be published for a YEAR. Now, why would I wait a year for an ebook when it's available now on the darknet?

1) Pirating ensures that no one gets compensated for their work.
2) Pirating doesn't send a clear signal to anyone about why you've refused to pay for the content you're perusing.
3) Tor is a relatively small publisher that is just gearing up for ebooks, and doesn't have the financial resources to indulge your every whim. (I.e. they are not delaying the ebook to push sales of the hardcover, it's because they're trying to get a ton of other ebooks out the door.)
4) If it was anything other than a fairly popular book/series, you'd have no choice.
5) There is already a ton of content out there that can keep you busy while you wait.
6) It's not that much different than them issuing a hardcover, and waiting 6 months to put out the paperback edition.
7) The inconvenience of not having the ebook RIGHT NOW does not justify piracy, any more than Tor charging too much for a hardcover edition does not justify shoplifting (though used is OK).

[DawnFalcon]

1/ So going to the Library in many countries, buying second hand (which is actually MORE destructive), borrowing it from a friend, etc.
2/ Sure it does, it's fairly easy to monitor.
3/ Nuts. Baen manages just fine, and Tor HAD started selling on Webscriptions before their corperate parent's paranoia made them pull out.
4/ I think you'd be surprised...
5/ And the general public will care why? Oh, they won't
6/ See 5
7/ See 5

Trying to pretend that people (in general, not pointing fingers) won't just go to the darknet is bluntly hilarious at this point.

[random50]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

3) Tor is a relatively small publisher that is just gearing up for ebooks, and doesn't have the financial resources to indulge your every whim. (I.e. they are not delaying the ebook to push sales of the hardcover, it's because they're trying to get a ton of other ebooks out the door.)

How is this not trivial? They surely have any newly published work stored in a text based computer format.

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

3) Tor is a relatively small publisher that is just gearing up for ebooks, and doesn't have the financial resources to indulge your every whim. (I.e. they are not delaying the ebook to push sales of the hardcover, it's because they're trying to get a ton of other ebooks out the door.)

Not true at all. Their corporate parent - who is far from small, just has senior management who are not competent to run the business in this environment.

e.g.:

"“Given the fact that people now have the Internet, almost 24-hour football entertainment in the fall, tennis matches from around the world, TV shows out the wazoo, and movies, do you really believe that people are going to be reading more because they can get it on a screen?” said John Sargent, chief executive of Macmillan, owner of imprints like Farrar, Straus and Giroux and St. Martin’s Press. “I don’t see the scenario.”"


That's one of the dumbest statements I have seen in a long, long, long time. Want someone this blind and ignorant controlling the strategic vision of a large company?

Err.. no.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by random50

How is this not trivial? They surely have any newly published work stored in a text based computer format.

I don't know the details, but the conversion process isn't that simple (nor is it cheap), especially with ePub. They also have to convert the rest of the WoT series, which they may or may not have in an electronic format.

Originally Posted by Blue Tyson

Not true at all. Their corporate parent - who is far from small, just has senior management who are not competent to run the business in this environment....

That does not mean Macmillan will throw unlimited resources at Tor for an ebook conversion process. In fact, if Tor doesn't turn a profit because they're investing too much in things like ebook conversions, the parent company isn't going to be too thrilled about the situation.

Nor does it mean that Tor is absolutely bound to Macmillan's policies, as one might guess in this interview with Tor senior editor Patrick Neilsen Hayden, Tor's experimentation with free ebooks as a marketing device, and so forth.

By the way, I don't regard Sargent's comments as "idiotic," especially in the absence of the comment's context. The man may not be the most forward-looking exec, but the reality is that while ebooks are more convenient than paper, I don't see anything about the platform that is so undeniably compelling (especially in its current forms) that it will definitively, categorically and unquestionably result in more people spending their time reading books.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

That does not mean Macmillan

Erm, the "owners who freaked" were Holtzbrinck's head office, not Macmillian (just the US operation). For reference.

[random50]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

I don't know the details, but the conversion process isn't that simple (nor is it cheap), especially with ePub. They also have to convert the rest of the WoT series, which they may or may not have in an electronic format.

That seems weird. Makes me wonder about the ePub format.

Regarding older titles possibly not in electronic format, they shouldn't be given priority over newer titles (if the conversion process between electronic formats were trivial, that is. If it's not, as you suggest, then it's a different matter.)

[Connallmac]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

I don't know the details, but the conversion process isn't that simple (nor is it cheap), especially with ePub. They also have to convert the rest of the WoT series, which they may or may not have in an electronic format.

Interesting then that I can send an MSWord doc file or txt file at Amazon and have come back to me a minute or two later wirelessly for $.15 a MB or for free if I want to load it via desktop to USB. The stuff I have gotten back looked about as good coming out as it did going in, in terms of readability. Perhaps this is a decided weakness of ePub?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Connallmac

Interesting then that I can send an MSWord doc file or txt file at Amazon and have come back to me a minute or two later wirelessly for $.15 a MB or for free if I want to load it via desktop to USB. The stuff I have gotten back looked about as good coming out as it did going in, in terms of readability. Perhaps this is a decided weakness of ePub?

and even more interesting since I (and many others) are reading the pirated series on our readers

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by fugazied

If publishers were smarter they would have reps sitting in communities like this one, gauging the feelings of more hardcore e-reader fans. They would soon realise that we hate DRM and that their 'marketing strategies' are losing them sales.

Who's to say that they aren't here everyday lurking, or even taking part incognito? They may even realize that we hate DRM and that they are losing sales, but at this point I'm betting that the low percentage of eBook sales makes any arguments we can come up with insignificant, at least until eBook sales increase.

Just look at this thread - we can't even agree here. Of the 103 posts in this thread, lets say one third to one half have stated that the publishers have lost a sale, even if we extrapolate that to all of MRs membership (55000) that is only 19,000 - 28,000 sales, and I bet that that is even high. I dont think it is enough to cause them concern yet. Maybe in a year or two it will get there, but for now we have to just keep stating our opinion and letting them know. Every time they lose a sale, send them an email, conversely, every time a publishers does something you think is right - send them an email too.

[CyGuy]

How about this as a work-around:

You want to purchase an e-book for your reader but it is not available yet from a vendor, but you found a great copy on the darknet.

Go purchase the paper copy of the book so you now have a "license".
Download the darknet version of your choice without the DRM and read at your leisure.

Author and publisher received full compensation, and you have a book you can read on any device at any time at your discretion.

Just don't sell the paper copy of the book unless you intend to delete the e-book at the same time.

Don't loan anyone the e-book unless you loan them the paper copy as well.