Apple Tablet -- Who needs it?

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by ficbot

They'd have to be a lot cheaper before I treated them that way.

I meant it more in the sense that a book-e-book or paper novel--is kind of like a rental for me, because 99.9% of them I'll never read again. So future access just isn't important to me.

The main reason I got a Kindle is so I'm not stuck with a paper book that ends up in a donation box or recycling bin when I'm moving and don't want to lug a book I'll never read again.

Every e-book I've bought thus far has been $6.50 to $9.99. I find that a reasonable price to pay to enjoy reading the book. About the same (or a little less) than a movie ticket for more hours of entertainment. Much cheaper than a concert or sporting event for more hours of entertainment.

So from that standpoint it's a good value, and I'm fortunate to have a good job and no bad debts etc. so it's pretty much pocket change anyway.

[Jack Tingle]

Originally Posted by stustaff

This is exactly what I mean, yes the phone doesnt come with that but then you couldnt do that to the sony Satio phone I have just got from work.

however yes you can quite happily send me the file by email! im assuming your phone has that?
and yes i can load it up in office software, edit the file and email it back to you.

your just uneducated about how the iPhone works or cant think further than bluetooth which of course is well known for being THE choice for transferring large files between devices.

basically what im saying is your wrong, you CAN send me the file. I CAN open and edit it, and i CAN send it back to you.

My point is that I can send you the item many ways from my phone. There's only one way you can get it on your iPhone. If we're not in an AT&T service area, for example, you're out of luck, even though I'm standing next to you. In fact, my phone does have email capabiltiy. I've never bothered to set it up, since I don't need it. In this example, you're out of luck. (I agree that's an unintentional chance oddity.)

Apple's design philosophy, despite their marketing department, is not for all people. It's especially not for you if you want to do things in a different way or multiple ways. They try to make Apple look non-conformist, but, in general, you have to conform to Apple's narrow brand of non-conformism. I find that a little hypocritical.

I've never liked WIMP GUIs, whether Apple or MS. They're contrary to how I like to do things. I find the Apple iPhone gestural system particularly annoying. I also dislike their lack of built-in handwriting recognition. Of course, VMS was my favorite operating system of the last 40 years or so, go figure.

As to uneducated, in polite society, educated people capitalize the first letter of each sentence. Commas and apostrophes are also used. Related to that, "your" is not the contraction for "you are". It's a possesive. The correct contraction is "you're".

Regards,
Jack Tingle

[astrodad]

Originally Posted by ficbot

There is no way to view poerpoint shows in an ipod touch that I know of...

I open Powerpoint files on an almost daily basis on my iPhone, right within the mail app, in full screen.

And hands down, emailing a file is so much faster than Bluetoothing it (sorry to turn a noun into a verb there). Even without network access, there ARE apps to let you Bluetooth between devices (there I go again). And how often does that really happen, where you don't have ANY kind of connectivity? I can also connect my iPhone to my computer and use an app to copy the file over USB.

My opinion is that the tablet, if it ever comes to be, is meant to be an all-purpose netbook killer, with a screen large enough that you can prop it up on the desk and use it like a desktop, but small enough to throw it into your bag and take it to class, or to use on the beach.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by mores

It's amazing to see how many people rejoice the "freedom" they have with MS-based systems. I wonder what that "freedom" is when I think about what I call "freedom": free of hickups, restarts, quirks, nasty interfaces, virii, trojans etc.

The only thing I can't do with my iPhone that I could do with my symbian or windows mobile or linux phone is send photos with bluetooth to a photo print kiosk. Guess I'll just have to email it to the address that's printed on the kiosk, then, which might take longer.
What I can do is browse, email and text in a way that was previously unthinkable. Aat least for me, since the experience was horrible up until now.

There are a lot more things you can't do with the iphone. You can't listen to music with stereo bluetooth headsets, you can't see internet video from a website (a serious shortcoming of Safari, no flash). You can't have an IM program open in the background, you can't listen to internet radio or TV in the background. You have no FM radio. You have no profiles, you have a very weak WiFi signal. You can't play many video file types with the ipod player. You can't turn off the accelerometer when lying in bed. You can't modify the interface to suit the way you work. There is a lot more.

How are e-mail and texting easier on the iphone?? I don't see it, unless you used to have a phone with a tiny 2.8" screen and an onscreen keyboard.... It is just as easy as it is on every other smart phone.

And I don't see how you can turn the "no expansion card", "no bluetooth file transfer" around and try to turn to them into an advantage.

Let us face it, the iphone is just another phone, with its shortcomings like every other one. It works well within its enclosed system that Apple sets up for you. But it has a serious lack of flexibility. That due to conscious decisions that Apple has made for the user "You don't need this and that". With the other phones the user decides, and that sometimes takes a little more effort with the possibility of things turning out badly. The iphone is a good phone for what it is supposed to do, but all the negatives mentioned by others are very valid points.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

There are a lot more things you can't do with the iphone. You can't listen to music with stereo bluetooth headsets, you can't see internet video from a website (a serious shortcoming of Safari, no flash). You can't have an IM program open in the background, you can't listen to internet radio or TV in the background. You have no FM radio. You have no profiles, you have a very weak WiFi signal. You can't play many video file types with the ipod player. You can't turn off the accelerometer when lying in bed. You can't modify the interface to suit the way you work. There is a lot more.

How are e-mail and texting easier on the iphone?? I don't see it, unless you used to have a phone with a tiny 2.8" screen and an onscreen keyboard.... It is just as easy as it is on every other smart phone.

And I don't see how you can turn the "no expansion card", "no bluetooth file transfer" around and try to turn to them into an advantage.

Let us face it, the iphone is just another phone, with its shortcomings like every other one.

I agree that an iPhone has shortcomings like every other phone.

But let's face it, you don't really know that much about the iPhone, so maybe you could read up a bit about it before making judgements about its shortcomings.
(as in stereo bluetooth headset support, actual screen size, internet video from a web site, wifi strength, and IM's in the background. Seriously, just do some research.)

[astrodad]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

There are a lot more things you can't do with the iphone. You can't listen to music with stereo bluetooth headsets, you can't see internet video from a website (a serious shortcoming of Safari, no flash). You can't have an IM program open in the background, you can't listen to internet radio or TV in the background. You have no FM radio. You have no profiles, you have a very weak WiFi signal. You can't play many video file types with the ipod player. You can't turn off the accelerometer when lying in bed. You can't modify the interface to suit the way you work. There is a lot more.

How are e-mail and texting easier on the iphone?? I don't see it, unless you used to have a phone with a tiny 2.8" screen and an onscreen keyboard.... It is just as easy as it is on every other smart phone.

And I don't see how you can turn the "no expansion card", "no bluetooth file transfer" around and try to turn to them into an advantage.

Let us face it, the iphone is just another phone, with its shortcomings like every other one. It works well within its enclosed system that Apple sets up for you. But it has a serious lack of flexibility. That due to conscious decisions that Apple has made for the user "You don't need this and that". With the other phones the user decides, and that sometimes takes a little more effort with the possibility of things turning out badly. The iphone is a good phone for what it is supposed to do, but all the negatives mentioned by others are very valid points.

Not to turn this thread into an iPhone defense thread, but note the following:

1. I can listen to music on a stereo bluetooth headset. I do this every day of my life.
2. I can view video from many sources, just not Flash (yet).
3. I can run IM programs in the "background" by using jailbreak or using an app with notifications.
4. I can listen to music in the background, just not Internet radio. And how does watching TV in the background make any sense?
5. I have a very strong WIFI signal, with few drops, if ever.
6. When I read, I lock the accelerometer just fine in Stanza and the Kindle app.
7. I can re-arrange apps where I want them to be. What else do you need to do on a phone?

I understand that it's not the perfect device but I've never felt like I couldn't do something on my phone that needed to be done. Except for tethering, but that's AT&T's fault.

Bottom line: an Apple table will sell like crazy because it will be able to easily do what 99% of people want it to do.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by jplumey

Not to turn this thread into an iPhone defense thread, but note the following:

1. I can listen to music on a stereo bluetooth headset. I do this every day of my life.
2. I can view video from many sources, just not Flash (yet).
3. I can run IM programs in the "background" by using jailbreak or using an app with notifications.
4. I can listen to music in the background, just not Internet radio. And how does watching TV in the background make any sense?
5. I have a very strong WIFI signal, with few drops, if ever.
6. When I read, I lock the accelerometer just fine in Stanza and the Kindle app.
7. I can re-arrange apps where I want them to be. What else do you need to do on a phone?

I understand that it's not the perfect device but I've never felt like I couldn't do something on my phone that needed to be done. Except for tethering, but that's AT&T's fault.

Bottom line: an Apple table will sell like crazy because it will be able to easily do what 99% of people want it to do.

1.)So they finally changed that for the 3GS? I have the 3G and it is impossible to get stereo bluetooth.

5.)I have a wireless router on the second floor. When I am on the first floor the Iphone cannot hold the single for more than 1-2 minutes. My other phone gets a steady signal.

6.)I would like to read the browser or watch a video. Can't turn the accelerometer off unless I jailbreak.

7.)I, for example like to create easy, on click acess to a number of useful functions like turning WiFi and 3G on and off.

4.)It makes a lot of sense to have TV running in the background. While I watch the news I have an e-mail or an IM message coming in and I can continue to listen to the news or the dialog while I answer. Or I suddenly want to check something in the browser.

3.)Yes you can jailbreak. But then my phone works at a snails pace since it doesn't have enough memory. And the apps I want open (3rd party) are being closed down when memory runs out. So I have to actively manage the Apple apps all the time. Besides, jailbreaking is exactly what Apple doesn't want you to do, they are always actively trying to find ways to foil you. So when you jailbreak you are not using the phone as Apple intended, which comes back to the argument "closed system".

Don't misunderstand me. Great that you love your iphone and never wanted to do anything with it that you can't do -- but for others there are plenty of things they can't do, these just don't seem important to you. I have a factory unlocked iphone running with 3 different SIMs from 3 different countries. None of them has an unlimted plan. And this is where you can clearly see that the iphone was designed for use with an unlimited plan. You inadvertantly run up the charges for e-mail and other functions. Fortunately there are lots of choices for all of us out there!

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by kjk

I agree that an iPhone has shortcomings like every other phone.

But let's face it, you don't really know that much about the iPhone, so maybe you could read up a bit about it before making judgements about its shortcomings.

I have the Iphone 3G and am reporting from actual usage experience. WiFi in real world conditions one-on-one with my other phone, see details in post above.

Stereo bluetooth -- I suppose they have added this to the 3GS, my 3G cannot do it. I know the screen size on the iphone is 3.5". My comment with the 2.8" screen referred to other phones. And I stand by "no internet video from a website". You cannot watch flash video directly in your browser on the iphone. I also know about "push mode" for IM (that is not the same as background operation , besides being slower it is a battery and data usage waste -- I don't have an unlimited plan). I know that you can run apps in the background after jailbreaking. But that is less than ideal and that you do need to do it verifies the closed system complaint.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

1.)So they finally changed that for the 3GS? I have the 3G and it is impossible to get stereo bluetooth.

It is not impossible for the 3G. It is impossible for the original EDGE iPhone.
Again, just do a bit of research.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/16700...30_update.html

[kjk]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

I have the Iphone 3G and reporting from actual usage experience. WiFi in real world conditions one-on-one with my other phone, see details in post above.

Stereo bluetooth -- I suppose they have added this to the 3GS, my 3G cannot do it. I know the screen size on the iphone is 3.5". My comment with the 2.8" screen referred to other phones. And I stand by "no internet video from a website". You cannot watch flash video directly in your browser on the iphone. I also know about "push mode" for IM (that is not the same as background operation , besides being slower it is a battery and data usage waste -- I don't have an unlimited plan).

Your 3G does do stereo bluetooth.
Flash video is just one type of video on websites. That doesn't mean you can't watch video on websites.
And push uses MORE battery and data waste than background operation? Based on what?

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by kjk

It is not impossible for the 3G. It is impossible for the original EDGE iPhone.
Again, just do a bit of research.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/16700...30_update.html

Thanks for the info!

[devilsadvocate]

Originally Posted by chainring

I have to laugh when I read the words of people that have a polar opposition to Apple just because the products might not suit their needs, and like to ridicule those who might appreciate them.

Actually I developed my polar opposition to Apple not because of the products but because of some of the people who use them.

It's unfortunate but every stereotype has its root in truth, and the iPeople are no exception. From "Apple invented the GUI and MS stole it" to "There's no security-through-obscurity, Mac is just naturally more secure" and/or ignoring the debt the OS owes to open-source to "PPC is faster than Intel", the Steve Jobs personality cult was amusing at first but I was burned out on it by the time Panther came out. There were even salespeople at one Apple store I'd visited who flatly denied any connection to BSD. Are they trained to do that or are they just that ignorant?

It's a shame too; I like the OS, though it has kind of a "walled garden" vibe (coming from someone who uses ArchLinux and occasionally Slackware). I have the same view of the phone; I use a Blackberry Tour and could care less about a lack of Flash; of course after rebates etc my Tour was only US$40. I may get another Blackberry, I may not, depends on what's around when I upgrade. (Disclaimer: I'm also a "tech head"...working on a Masters degree, as a matter of fact...)

Fact is, Apple products are an emotional purchase, and that's fine; it's your money, stimulate the economy however you see fit. But keep in mind that many religions are identified with their fanatics and many trends are identified with their zealots.

[mores]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

There are a lot more things you can't do with the iphone. You can't listen to music with stereo bluetooth headsets, you can't see internet video from a website (a serious shortcoming of Safari, no flash). You can't have an IM program open in the background, you can't listen to internet radio or TV in the background. You have no FM radio. You have no profiles, you have a very weak WiFi signal. You can't play many video file types with the ipod player. You can't turn off the accelerometer when lying in bed. You can't modify the interface to suit the way you work. There is a lot more.

Here's the thing: I don't listen to radio, I don't IM on the iPhone, I don't watch TV on the iPhone, I don't watch video on the iPhone, I don't use the iPhone in bed other than for reading (and Stanza allows me to stop the screen-turning thingie) and I am quite happy with the interface as it is.
Stereo Bluetooth is available, both on 3G and 3GS - I bought my wife some wireless headphones with integrated mic and they sound amazing.

Originally Posted by HansTWN

How are e-mail and texting easier on the iphone?? I don't see it, unless you used to have a phone with a tiny 2.8" screen and an onscreen keyboard.... It is just as easy as it is on every other smart phone.

SLOOOOOOOOOOOW! That's what it is on ANY device I tried. Even my friend's blackberry seems a lot more sluggish when it comes to browsing and emailing, even selecting the email itself.

Originally Posted by HansTWN

And I don't see how you can turn the "no expansion card", "no bluetooth file transfer" around and try to turn to them into an advantage.

No, that was not my intention. I didn't even think of having an extra storage card to move files to and insert into the kiosk. You're right, that would be simple too. What I wanted to say was that there are other options, for me, to get around the lack of bluetooth-file-transfer.

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Let us face it, the iphone is just another phone, with its shortcomings like every other one. It works well within its enclosed system that Apple sets up for you. But it has a serious lack of flexibility. That due to conscious decisions that Apple has made for the user "You don't need this and that". With the other phones the user decides, and that sometimes takes a little more effort with the possibility of things turning out badly. The iphone is a good phone for what it is supposed to do, but all the negatives mentioned by others are very valid points.

Agreed. Yet, strange enough, the iPhone is now the "basis" for all the new phones that come out. They try to imitate it, but still make techheads feel like they're in control. The result is the same old stuff with some kind of "iphone-like" front end app.
Sorry, I truly believe that the iPhone revolutionized the mobile OS sector as seen from a layperson. When it was introduced, I was just nodding approval at all the stuff they showed us; no stylus, multitouch, simple, easy to navigate, snappy ... everything I ever wanted!
Users who need more must either jailbreak their iPhones or just get one of those other phones and bypass the front-end app.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

again I don't own one, so not a fanboy.

So anyone who owns one is a fanboy?

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by Jack Tingle

My point is that I can send you the item many ways from my phone. There's only one way you can get it on your iPhone. If we're not in an AT&T service area, for example, you're out of luck, even though I'm standing next to you. In fact, my phone does have email capabiltiy. I've never bothered to set it up, since I don't need it. In this example, you're out of luck. (I agree that's an unintentional chance oddity.)

Apple's design philosophy, despite their marketing department, is not for all people. It's especially not for you if you want to do things in a different way or multiple ways. They try to make Apple look non-conformist, but, in general, you have to conform to Apple's narrow brand of non-conformism. I find that a little hypocritical.

I've never liked WIMP GUIs, whether Apple or MS. They're contrary to how I like to do things. I find the Apple iPhone gestural system particularly annoying. I also dislike their lack of built-in handwriting recognition. Of course, VMS was my favorite operating system of the last 40 years or so, go figure.

As to uneducated, in polite society, educated people capitalize the first letter of each sentence. Commas and apostrophes are also used. Related to that, "your" is not the contraction for "you are". It's a possesive. The correct contraction is "you're".

Regards,
Jack Tingle

I cant have it many ways from your phonein fact you seem to only have one option Bluetooth it doesnt even do Email

I havent been bringing it up because its not for most users but my phone is jailbroken so i do have the bluetooth functionality on my phone so 'could' get that file from you.

also my HP netbook doesnt have bluetooth so i guess they are as bad as apple too.

basically its just different to your phone no reason for the hate it semms a little extreme.

With uneducated I didnt mean you were generally 'uneductaed' or Stupid I meant you dont seem to be 'up' or an expert on the iphone it wasnt meant as an attack.

Lets not get into a grammar battle its childish, I write for a living but you may have noticed that this is a web forum... not a proffesional letter but thanks for the suggestions

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by mores

Here's the thing: I don't listen to radio, I don't IM on the iPhone, I don't watch TV on the iPhone, I don't watch video on the iPhone, I don't use the iPhone in bed other than for reading (and Stanza allows me to stop the screen-turning thingie) and I am quite happy with the interface as it is.
Stereo Bluetooth is available, both on 3G and 3GS - I bought my wife some wireless headphones with integrated mic and they sound amazing.

SLOOOOOOOOOOOW! That's what it is on ANY device I tried. Even my friend's blackberry seems a lot more sluggish when it comes to browsing and emailing, even selecting the email itself.

No, that was not my intention. I didn't even think of having an extra storage card to move files to and insert into the kiosk. You're right, that would be simple too. What I wanted to say was that there are other options, for me, to get around the lack of bluetooth-file-transfer.

Agreed. Yet, strange enough, the iPhone is now the "basis" for all the new phones that come out. They try to imitate it, but still make techheads feel like they're in control. The result is the same old stuff with some kind of "iphone-like" front end app.
Sorry, I truly believe that the iPhone revolutionized the mobile OS sector as seen from a layperson. When it was introduced, I was just nodding approval at all the stuff they showed us; no stylus, multitouch, simple, easy to navigate, snappy ... everything I ever wanted!
Users who need more must either jailbreak their iPhones or just get one of those other phones and bypass the front-end app.

So anyone who owns one is a fanboy?

The iphone brought us a lot of good things. It is well designed, very thin and has a big screen, finally making bigger screens popular. They brought us finger friendly. Nobody can deny Steve Jobs' marketing genius. You don't always sell the most by being the best. Otherwise Windows would have be perfect! Actually the ones that are trying to imitate the iphone are the ones that are bound to lose. You can't win the marketing game against Jobs. The ones that are doing well, Samsung, Google, HTC are doing completely different things. And Nokia may yet come up with something decent, multimediawise they have some advantages. Actually a stylus is not always a bad thing. I have a real hard time hitting links in Safari without zooming in! I hate to see styluses go, the ones for capacitative screens are akward and there is no place to put them. I had some very slow phones years ago, and I know what you are talking about. But these are definitely a thing of the past.

Anyway I am happy to have given the iphone to my wife, I found a lot of little things rather frustrating to use. As mentioned before -- for me the phone is a computer first and foremost. And the jailbroken phone was anything but a smooth experience. Unfortunately what you cannot do on the iphone are exactly some of the things that I want to do. Never said you are a fanboy. But, by the same token, not everyone who points out some negative aspects is "uninformed" or "unfair".