E-Book Piracy: The Publishing Industry's Next Epic Saga?

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Bob T

Could you explain that difference? As I don't see it...

You cannot share a pbook with 2000 people. Well, you can in principle, but that is not going to happen. However, you can easily share an ebook with a million people. That is the economic difference.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I don't think that argument is true. The form (particularly in this case) dictates the potential simply because of the ease of making a perfect copy with little effort. And it's really that that the industry is attempting to control with DRM or lawsuits against so called piracy.

That's what I said. They're attempting to control it in order to protect their business model, not because there is any difference in the rights we should expect. The industry is losing control of the distribution monopoly, and are trying to keep it by taking away consumer rights.

The fundamental question is, do you believe consumers should give up their rights in order to support a failing business model? I can share and sell content as a pBook today, why should I not expect to be allowed to do the same with the same content as an eBook. I certainly have the ability to do that with eBooks. Should I give up that ability because the company knows they can make more money if I do?

[kjk]

Originally Posted by kennyc

No. It's inherently different, that's why we are dealing with all these issues. It's not a matter of will, it's a matter of inherent differences. It's much the same issue as the music industry just went through and we're re-hashing it in the book publishing world.

I don't disagree that going from physical books to digital books will necessitate change from both sides. What I don't agree with is using examples like "live theatre to TV" or "horses to cars" as a reasonable explanation as to why.

We understand the differences between watching live theatre and watching TV because there is a real tradeoff.

Saying that we have to give up book sharing or reselling because of the move to digital is an artificial tradeoff. There is nothing inherent about the move to digital that precludes the possibility. There is everything inherent about the move from live theatre (and horses) to TV (and cars) that necessitates a change in attitude and behavior.


That is where the tension arises, and why I think those are terrible examples.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

I don't need to show them anything. I'm just sitting around and watching the train wreck. I'm hoping, honestly, that the book companies with a clue are going to be able to make up market share online far quicker, and be able to grow, faster than the old book companies - who'll see more and more people going to the darknets for their works

It's darwinian.

You got your Darwin wrong. ‘Evolution’ does not mean that what comes next is better. It may be worse. It is just better adapted to a new environment.

If the new digital world puts the livelihood of authors at risk, then no matter how easy it is to copy and share and to pull from the Internet, that world is not better then the p-book world.

If the new digital world resembles just a bit the Google model, then forget about authors being able to live off quality fiction, for instance.* Only blockbusters will survive. Do you want that? I don’t.

*Why? Because the Google model is just like the open TV model: paid by advertising. And last I checked open TV is not exactly a model of quality shows or news.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by kennyc

No. It's inherently different, that's why we are dealing with all these issues. It's not a matter of will, it's a matter of inherent differences.

The only difference is in the scale. It doesn't matter as much as some people think it does.

It's much the same issue as the music industry just went through and we're re-hashing it in the book publishing world.

Yeah, and the music industry ended up with a standard format that... allows sharing.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

That's what I said. They're attempting to control it in order to protect their business model, not because there is any difference in the rights we should expect. The industry is losing control of the distribution monopoly, and are trying to keep it by taking away consumer rights.

The fundamental question is, do you believe consumers should give up their rights in order to support a failing business model? I can share and sell content as a pBook today, why should I not expect to be allowed to do the same with the same content as an eBook. I certainly have the ability to do that with eBooks. Should I give up that ability because the company knows they can make more money if I do?

Because they don't equate due to the inherent difference. You can only share a pbook with one person. That is untrue of an ebook as discussed above. It's inherently different, so the inherent rights are different, and yes those rights have to be different in order to "protect" the system which creates the product containing those rights. You can't reasonable expect to have the same rights for different products.

You can't consume a Coke and then share it with a friend.

(well maybe you can....)

[DawnFalcon]

Happ - I didn't say Evolution, I said Darwinian. There's a difference, you know.

My statement stands.

Also; For a starting author, the enemy is not the darknets. It's obscurity.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by kjk

Saying that we have to give up book sharing or reselling because of the move to digital is an artificial tradeoff. There is nothing inherent about the move to digital that precludes the possibility. There is everything inherent about the move from live theatre (and horses) to TV (and cars) that necessitates a change in attitude and behavior.


That is where the tension arises, and why I think those are terrible examples.

Our best hope would be to educate people. Make them feel the need to pay what they like to read.

Second-best, and Nook was along those lines: let people share with a limited number of people (after all, with p-books you share only with a limited number of people). This is technically possible, but as always it will be hacked and then hell breaks loose again. Oh well.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Happ

You cannot share a pbook with 2000 people. Well, you can in principle, but that is not going to happen.

How many people check books out from a library?

[Bob T]

Originally Posted by Happ

You cannot share a pbook with 2000 people. Well, you can in principle, but that is not going to happen. However, you can easily share an ebook with a million people. That is the economic difference.

Only if you are making extra, (illegal), copies....
I want to loan my copy or sell it after I'm done with it....
Two completely different things...

[Happ]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

(Incidentally, apparently and unsurprisingly the number of people sharing TSR book torrents soared after Wizards pulled the legal PDF's...)

Could you expand on this, please?

[kjk]

Originally Posted by Happ

Our best hope would be to educate people. Make them feel the need to pay what they like to read.

I agree. Education, transparency, and trust go a long way with many customers.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Happ

If the new digital world puts the livelihood of authors at risk

Will it? It's certainly a threat to the Publishing industry. I'm not so sure it's really a threat to the authors, it may even be beneficial for them. Certainly promotion and distribution become a lot cheaper and easier. That sucks for the middlemen, but is pretty good for the authors.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

The only difference is in the scale. It doesn't matter as much as some people think it does.



Yeah, and the music industry ended up with a standard format that... allows sharing.

No. it's fundamentally different. If you purchase a pbook then there is only one copy. You can sell it or pass it on or whatever you want and there is little impact on the industry. The impact of perfect drm-free copies to any number of people is much bigger and the music industry is still adjusting to that. The publishing industry needs to do the same. It needs to change. It is not possible to duplicate the media/format/rights a consumer has with regard to pbooks in the ebook world due to the inherent differences in the format.

I think in many ways we are both saying the same thing, but are looking at it from different perspectives.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Bob T

Only if you are making extra, (illegal), copies....
I want to loan my copy or sell it after I'm done with it....
Two completely different things...

I see, sorry. I do not believe that is ever going to happen. It would be a technical nightmare to make a system in which you could only sell one copy of a given e-book instead of a million.