E-Book Piracy: The Publishing Industry's Next Epic Saga?

[Happ]

Derek, you cannot take your behavior as a model. Most people will not buy if they can not buy it and still have it no matter what. That is: unless they are educated. IF they are educated THEN perhaps it will be viable to use that sort of model. This is the model I prefer. An author puts his book for sale, perhaps half the book is free. If people want the rest, they pay a just price. And the digital copy comes clean, no DRM attached. Fine. Another model is: you publish the first novel in a series, for free. The rest of the series is not free. None has DRM. This is great, Derek. But if you want to convince the industry to do it, you have to take the economics seriously and stop pushing for a Digital Revolution like so many anti-DRM people do.

As to publishers who do not release old titles digitally, this is not that different to paper books. There are a lot of old books that are not released anymore and that I would like them to be. I would favor a law that would allow one to publish an electronic title a given publisher refuses to publish digitally.

As to Baen, it is funny as this always comes to the fore in these discussions. I would like that model to prosper. However, that is not what I see. If it did prosper, they would expand and others would do the same. As far as I know, it is not prospering at all and it might not even be around next year.

BTW, tell me, why would anyone pay for Atlantis if they can have the same for free with Open Office? Because it is better? That means that freeware must be junk or else you are out of business. Remember how Microsoft defeated Netscape? Giving away for free something. How could they compete with that except by giving theirs away for free also? But, alas, if you give it for free, you will go bust sooner or later. Or else, you get some Big Corporation behind you, like Google is behind Firefox.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by msundman

I was correct, you made an invalid logical induction. It was not a definition of copyright. Specifically, I did not say that copyright is only defining what people are forbidden to do with their property. (Copyright certainly also limits things that are not (natural) property, and I'm fully aware of this fact, so I would never say otherwise.)

Aha, sorry for misunderstanding you. The induction was based on some observations from other comments also but I think I jumped to a bad conclusion here which was a bit careless of me.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Bullpucky! People already know to buy when they can - and they know that buying means their authors will feel motivated to finish the next books in the series. However, I have a spin on your library thing. That, for so many people, in essence, is what darknetting an ebook is. It's 'checking out' an author for the first time. If the author's work 'clicks' with the reader, the reader then searches for his books on the commercial sites, just as he would at a bookstore rather than have to wait for the (one or few) copies of the newer books to be available for checking out.



O cry me a river! What a bunch of malarky! People routinely create new apps that go head-to-head with apps created by large corporations and routinely succeed. I note that my favorite word-processor creator (Atlantis) is still in business and still adding value-added-features to Atlantis - such as the ability to directly create ePub ebooks from within. And he does this on a $35-per-copy registration fee!

Derek, Atlantis sounds interesting to me. What platform does it work on? What input files does it read? And finally, do you have a link?

RSE

(I have no problem paying for information. If it does what I want and is at a price I can afford.)

[kjk]

Originally Posted by Happ

As far as I know, it is not prospering at all and it might not even be around next year.

Really? I hadn't heard anything about that before.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by calvin-c

And the second point, that downloading isn't the same as use, just doesn't make sense, unless you're downloading things to be used by other people. Of course sometimes you download something you intend to use-but then never get around to doing it.

Sorry, I do not agree, Calvin. I download lots of software and music and free e-books that I delete after giving them a try. I certainly do not want my taxes to pay for them and there is no other way to see how they work or if I like them. For instance, how can I know how Opera or Firefox works? I download it and try it. After a few minutes, sometimes seconds, I delete them from my system and stick to IE8. The same with e-books; I download them, put them in the BeBook and after a few pages delete them. I am sure this is the regular behavior or folk. That is one of the reasons the tax system is not a good idea.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Derek, Atlantis sounds interesting to me. What platform does it work on? What input files does it read? And finally, do you have a link?

RSE

(I have no problem paying for information. If it does what I want and is at a price I can afford.)

It's Windoze! Yes, I *AM* running WinVista Home Premium. I am ashamed!

It reads RTF, Word doc and Docx, Text and it outputs in rtf, the various flavors of Word doc/docx, Txt and HTML and ePub.

Just google for Atlantis Word Processor.

Derek

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Derek, Atlantis sounds interesting to me. What platform does it work on? What input files does it read? And finally, do you have a link?

http://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com/

You might also consider this if you do not know about it:

google.com

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Happ

I am sure this is the regular behavior or folk. That is one of the reasons the tax system is not a good idea.

Yes, so you cannot use download as a measurement of how to distribute money. But you can use other methods. You can for example look at the reviews from people that have read the books and see what they say. Or you can have people that are payed to read books and give some evaluation of them. And so on.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Happ

Derek, you cannot take your behavior as a model. Most people will not buy if they can not buy it and still have it no matter what. That is: unless they are educated. IF they are educated THEN perhaps it will be viable to use that sort of model. This is the model I prefer. An author puts his book for sale, perhaps half the book is free. If people want the rest, they pay a just price. And the digital copy comes clean, no DRM attached. Fine. Another model is: you publish the first novel in a series, for free. The rest of the series is not free. None has DRM. This is great, Derek. But if you want to convince the industry to do it, you have to take the economics seriously and stop pushing for a Digital Revolution like so many anti-DRM people do.

As to publishers who do not release old titles digitally, this is not that different to paper books. There are a lot of old books that are not released anymore and that I would like them to be. I would favor a law that would allow one to publish an electronic title a given publisher refuses to publish digitally.

As to Baen, it is funny as this always comes to the fore in these discussions. I would like that model to prosper. However, that is not what I see. If it did prosper, they would expand and others would do the same. As far as I know, it is not prospering at all and it might not even be around next year.

BTW, tell me, why would anyone pay for Atlantis if they can have the same for free with Open Office? Because it is better? That means that freeware must be junk or else you are out of business. Remember how Microsoft defeated Netscape? Giving away for free something. How could they compete with that except by giving theirs away for free also? But, alas, if you give it for free, you will go bust sooner or later. Or else, you get some Big Corporation behind you, like Google is behind Firefox.

I'll buy Atlantis if it does what I want at $35. What I want if to be able to take a RTF file and do a one-step convert to standard e-pub file. Open Office 3.1 won't.

As for Baen Book... It's Julius Simon time. I'll bet you one ounce (31.1 grams) of gold per year for the next 10 years, that Baen Books doesn't go broke. Now, if they get bought out by another publisher, the bet stops.

Let me know if you feel lucky.....

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

It's Windoze! Yes, I *AM* running WinVista Home Premium. I am ashamed!

It reads RTF, Word doc and Docx, Text and it outputs in rtf, the various flavors of Word doc/docx, Txt and HTML and ePub.

Just google for Atlantis Word Processor.

Derek

On my way. Derek!

(I run windows 3.1, ME, 2000, XP Pro and XP Home. no shame needed )

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by Happ

Derek, you cannot take your behavior as a model. Most people will not buy if they can not buy it and still have it no matter what. That is: unless they are educated. IF they are educated THEN perhaps it will be viable to use that sort of model. This is the model I prefer. An author puts his book for sale, perhaps half the book is free. If people want the rest, they pay a just price. And the digital copy comes clean, no DRM attached. Fine. Another model is: you publish the first novel in a series, for free. The rest of the series is not free. None has DRM. This is great, Derek. But if you want to convince the industry to do it, you have to take the economics seriously and stop pushing for a Digital Revolution like so many anti-DRM people do.

As to publishers who do not release old titles digitally, this is not that different to paper books. There are a lot of old books that are not released anymore and that I would like them to be. I would favor a law that would allow one to publish an electronic title a given publisher refuses to publish digitally.

As to Baen, it is funny as this always comes to the fore in these discussions. I would like that model to prosper. However, that is not what I see. If it did prosper, they would expand and others would do the same. As far as I know, it is not prospering at all and it might not even be around next year.

Really? Who is your source? Because whoever s/he is, s/he obviously has some *PRIMO* grade of MaryJane s/he's supplying to you.

BTW, tell me, why would anyone pay for Atlantis if they can have the same for free with Open Office? Because it is better? That means that freeware must be junk or else you are out of business. Remember how Microsoft defeated Netscape? Giving away for free something. How could they compete with that except by giving theirs away for free also? But, alas, if you give it for free, you will go bust sooner or later. Or else, you get some Big Corporation behind you, like Google is behind Firefox.

Really? I've tried Open Office. It's nice enough... But I wanted a clean, lightweight, RTF-capable word processor that didn't require the friggin' kitchen sink *AND* a spreadsheet app *AND* a database app *AND* a presentation app... So I shopped around and found Atlantis.

Derek

[Happ]

Originally Posted by tompe

You can for example look at the reviews from people that have read the books and see what they say. Or you can have people that are payed to read books and give some evaluation of them. And so on.

Are you serious? You mean to pay authors in terms of the reviews they have? Why would that be better than the people who actually read their books paying for them?

Let’s get something clear here. The fairest system is when those who read books by author X pay author X. Whatever strays from this is not as fair.

I favor this:

1) No DRM;
2) Educate people to pay what they use;
3) Make piracy harder.

My point is that the industry will only accept this if one stops talking about the New Digital Heaven that awaits us in which all is Free. Because this talk only means that giants like Google make all the money and authors and publishers go bust. ‘Free’ in this context means Big Corporations that can make a profit from ads. Publishers are not advertising companies (well, they do not see themselves that way) therefore they do not like that idea.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

On my way. Derek!

Consider this also:

http://www.abisource.com/

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Happ

Derek, you cannot take your behavior as a model. Most people will not buy if they can not buy it and still have it no matter what.

I direct you to the bottled water industry. People will indeed pay money--lots of it--for what's available to them for free. They will pay for convenience, for packaging, for a brand name they trust, and ignore the quality of the content.

I would favor a law that would allow one to publish an electronic title a given publisher refuses to publish digitally.

Don't need a law, exactly, just a judge's ruling on a copyright case that refusal to enter a market makes it available for others to copy into. Such a ruling would also imply that books never released in paperback were free to be published in that way. Potentially, to avoid commercial exploitation, the ruling could say that no direct profit could be made from the unauthorized copies.

As to Baen, it is funny as this always comes to the fore in these discussions. I would like that model to prosper. However, that is not what I see. If it did prosper, they would expand and others would do the same. As far as I know, it is not prospering at all and it might not even be around next year.

Why would they expand faster than they are? They publish genre books. They publish as many as they can handle, as fast as they can get them edited & into production. They're making money at their ebooks, and more from their paper books.

Other companies don't copy them because they just don't believe it works, despite 10 years of active profits. Or they think it won't work for them. Or they think they can make more with DRM'd ebooks in one or two formats only.

Part of Baen's success is their very casual attitude towards unauthorized additional copies, and that's just too hard for many publishers to accept. Baen takes the position that anyone *reading* their books is, at worst, a future customer, and doesn't worry about how they got access to the books. So far--10 years--it's working.

BTW, tell me, why would anyone pay for Atlantis if they can have the same for free with Open Office?

They prefer Atlantis' settings options. Or they prefer the HTML output options. Or they like the look of the UI. Or they like the smaller program size. Or something else. There are dozens of ways that two programs that offer the same basic features can differ, and a strong preference for any one feature can make the program worth $35.

But, alas, if you give it for free, you will go bust sooner or later. Or else, you get some Big Corporation behind you, like Google is behind Firefox.

There are plenty of ways to stay in business while giving away free products.
Sell tech support. Sell skins & other enhancements. Offer subscriptions to early updates. Have premium features that cost on top of basic free features. Sell (blech) ads attached to the product. Get a government grant. (I believe that's how Twitter got started.) Take donations. Allow free use for personal purposes, but charge for use for business purposes.

Payment doesn't have to come directly from each person who finds value in the product, in order for it to be supported enough for a company to stay in business.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Happ

The fairest system is when those who read books by author X pay author X. Whatever strays from this is not as fair.

Do you really think the most fair system is that each physical book should be purchased, read once, and destroyed?

I favor this:

1) No DRM;
2) Educate people to pay what they use;
3) Make piracy harder.

Piracy will NEVER be harder. Never. Files will never get harder to copy; the internet will never get more slow; media will never be more difficult to share. We are in the age of the 32gb keyfob.

Any attempt to fix the problems of pay-the-authors (and I admit, we've got some problems) has to start from the premise that digital copies are never going to be any more difficult to exchange than they are right now.