Kaufman links e-book trend to bookburning, Nazis

[PhishStyx]

Originally Posted by Alan Kaufman

From the December 2009 issue of Evergreen Review (#121)

"Hi-Tech Taliban" by Alan Kaufman

http://www.evergreenreview.com/121/hi-tech-taliban.html

I reported this post. Below is what I wrote concerning Kaufman.

I am reporting Alan Kaufman's most recent post because I personally find him and his various group attacks and insults directed at EVERY member of Mobile Read to be among the most offensive things I have ever come across on the internet. His posted link simply goes to him making yet another such attack. Even though Kaufman does not explicitly refer to Mobile Read by name, portions of his rant do refer to us.

Perhaps the admin team here finds him inoffensive, I don't know, but I have gotten the feeling previously that when I reported posts, it was very much ignored, if not simply laughed at. Just below this box, there is a bit of text that reads, "This feature is to be used to report things which need rapid Moderator attention. . .," and I see little on this board that requires more rapid attention than Mr. Kaufman's continued use of the Mobile Read forum. Note: I am also posting this publicly in the thread that I am now reporting.

[mtravellerh]

Originally Posted by PhishStyx

I reported this post. Below is what I wrote concerning Kaufman.

Well, you are not ignored! We have been talking about Mister Kaufman quite a lot lately. However, there is not a lot that we can or feel inclined to do! Would you like us to censor Mister Kaufman, thereby playing in his cards? Please stay civilized when debating his posts is all we have to contribute! Everybody here is free to express his views pertaining to eBooks, even if those views seem somewhat extreme!

[tompe]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Ah, so that was his big plan! He got tired of us badmouthing him, so in the middle of it he joined up, thus making us pretend to not dislike him!

If the posting guidelines only includes member here they should be changed to include non-members. It is rude to badmouth people that will not see it and cannot defend themselves.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by PhishStyx

I reported this post. Below is what I wrote concerning Kaufman.

I read the article fast now and really did not see what you considered to be attacks.

Unfortunately I do not remember all posts in this thread but my opinions is that we have a bandwagon effect were people just jump on and say things that are personal attack and near them and they do it unreflected just to show that they belong to the group. But that is just my impression and that follows mostly because the arguments are mostly not discussed or attacked.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

With all due respect to the moderators here, I would like to see this poster banned.

He deliberately incites inflammatory posts.....

Thru his posts he defames and deminishes those who died at the hands of monsters.

Now he's comparing our ebook readers to the taliban.

Enough.

I agree completely. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but this guy was as personally nasty towards members as anyone I've seen regardless of his opinions and ideas. And it seems those who react to him are the ones reprimanded. He is clearly just seeking attention.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by mtravellerh

Would you like us to censor Mister Kaufman, thereby playing in his cards?

Yes.

Moderating a forum -- including suspending or banning a user -- is not "censorship," it's editorial enforcement of the site's policies.

He has several forums to air his views, and has been extremely rude to the MR community. He is clearly not interested in polite discussion or sound arguments; rather, he regards us all as murderous infants who need to be "saved" from our own ability to choose an appropriate medium to read a book.

I'm fairly confident that if I repeatedly characterized anyone who disagreed with me as a genocidal anti-semitic totalitarian, I'd be out on my ear. I see no reason why Kaufman should be treated any differently than anyone else.

Originally Posted by mtravellerh

Please stay civilized when debating his posts is all we have to contribute! Everybody here is free to express his views pertaining to eBooks, even if those views seem somewhat extreme!

Since Kaufman is not behaving in a civilized manner, why should we tolerate his presence? I have yet to see much, if any, evidence that he is following the posting guidelines.

I don't mind discussing "extreme" views or even engaging in strong disagreements with other posters, and I believe there are rational means by which one can object to certain trends or even the very existence of ebooks. But it's quite clear that Kaufman does not happen to be engaging in any such discussion.

[vaughnmr]

I agree completely. Let him spew forth his filth in another venue, but not my beloved mobilread forum. Someone needs to draw the line between censorship and the rants of the insane!

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by tompe

If the posting guidelines only includes member here they should be changed to include non-members. It is rude to badmouth people that will not see it and cannot defend themselves.

I would have hoped that this forum was NOT so thin-skinned and politically correct that we would be unable to say negative things about the ideas (or the characters, when relevant) of public figures. But if you want everything to be all sunshine and puppy dogs, then I suppose that Kaufman has pretty good hair for his age. (I could have said as a positive that he seems to love his daughter, but then I remembered him calling people who used electronic devices "not human" and he says his daughter uses them, so that probably goes out the window.)

Als, tompe, I hope that you have NEVER said anything bad about any politician, actor, or any other public figure on any public forum that they might some day stumble across, because that would mean that you are not only rude but also a hypocrite.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

I would have hoped that this forum was NOT so thin-skinned and politically correct that we would be unable to say negative things about the ideas (or the characters, when relevant) of public figures. But if you want everything to be all sunshine and puppy dogs, then I suppose that Kaufman has pretty good hair for his age. (I could have said as a positive that he seems to love his daughter, but then I remembered him calling people who used electronic devices "not human" and he says his daughter uses them, so that probably goes out the window.)

Als, tompe, I hope that you have NEVER said anything bad about any politician, actor, or any other public figure on any public forum that they might some day stumble across, because that would mean that you are not only rude but also a hypocrite.

Of course you can and should attack ideas. But just because you think an idea is stupid there is not reason to call the person having the idea stupid. I usually only discuss arguments and ideas on forums. I find it totally unnecessary to start calling people stupid or idiots which have been common in this thread.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Since Kaufman is not behaving in a civilized manner, why should we tolerate his presence? I have yet to see much, if any, evidence that he is following the posting guidelines.

It was members here that started to be uncivilized and breaking the guidelines. Look for example at the three first posts. Number three says "Wow, Kaufman, drama queen much? What a turd. "

[PhishStyx]

Originally Posted by tompe

It was members here that started to be uncivilized and breaking the guidelines. Look for example at the three first posts. Number three says "Wow, Kaufman, drama queen much? What a turd. "

Uhm, no. Kaufman's very first post here was him calling US Nazi's, and he followed that up with numerous other bad names. My complaint about this is that Kaufman gets free reign to call all the rest of us whatever he likes as a member of this while the other members are shouted down by moderators everytime we get unhappy with the situation.

[netseeker]

Originally Posted by Alan Kaufman

From the December 2009 issue of Evergreen Review (#121)

"Hi-Tech Taliban" by Alan Kaufman

http://www.evergreenreview.com/121/hi-tech-taliban.html

Mr. Kaufman, this is the final call to read and accept our posting guidelines. You are welcome to discuss in this message board according to our guidelines, but we won't accept or ignore posts and/or articles which can be considered political hate speech. Also we won't accept self-promoting posts which contain links to foreign webpages only.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by tompe

It was members here that started to be uncivilized and breaking the guidelines. Look for example at the three first posts. Number three says "Wow, Kaufman, drama queen much? What a turd. "

I won't excuse bad behavior on the part of individuals in the forums.

However, you may want to read the initial article in question. Kaufman essentially opened his position by equating proponents of ebooks with Nazis and book-burners, and in his responses engaged in a variety of ad homs, including referring to all ebook / tech proponents interchangeably as Nazis, fascists, mass-murderers, war criminals, nihilists, the Taliban, and so forth. (See posts #307, #309, #314 in this thread as examples.)

While the reaction to him by some posters (far from all, by the way) is out of line, the reaction by him has been equally lacking in basic tact, etiquette, reason, proportion and virtue. Even if Kaufman has been mistreated, his own reactions have thoroughly knocked him far off of any moral high ground. He hasn't replied by presenting facts, evidence, or logical argument -- just more insults, hyperbole, fear-mongering and emotional appeals.

In fact, I would suggest that the lack of tact in both his presentation and the vitriolic nature of his basic position is pretty much what has invited such invective. I.e. sometimes, you get what you give.

So even if he has not been treated well, as long as he disrespects the members of MR and cannot behave in a civilized manner, I do not see why this is the appropriate forum for his opinions, or at a minimum how most of his statements adhere to the posting guidelines.


P.S. Merry Xmas, for those to whom it applies

[PhishStyx]

Ok then, we'll see how that goes.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by PhishStyx

Uhm, no. Kaufman's very first post here was him calling US Nazi's, and he followed that up with numerous other bad names. My complaint about this is that Kaufman gets free reign to call all the rest of us whatever he likes as a member of this while the other members are shouted down by moderators everytime we get unhappy with the situation.

I was referring to the comments in the article that was the start of this thread. And instead of commenting on the arguments or the lack of arguments people started with name callings directly.