E-books in physical bookstores, even without internet - Page 3

Jellby · 12-24-2009, 07:29 AM

I think I would like the bookstores if they were like my ideal bookstore (wich might be like Zelda's real bookstore), but the bookstores I know are not nice places. They are full of books, right... but they sorting method in arbitrary and sometimes inexistent. All I see is the spines of books (and I have to turn my head one side and the other to read them) and n times the cover of the latest bestseller (a book written by some TV star, a book about some TV star, a cookbook by a TV star, a guide about TV stars... and Harry Potter). The booksellers don't know that much about books either, they just know how to search their computer systems to check whether they have a particular book or not. Visiting a bookstore in September is a suicide too... they're full of kids and parents buying school textbooks, you can't hardly move there.

Maybe it's me, but I can only find a real (not ideal) bookstore useful if I know in advance the book (or author) I want to buy, otherwise I just lose my time and get disappointed.

Barcey · 12-24-2009, 10:31 AM

This will never work. How will they enforce the geographical restrictions the same way as an internet store. Someone from the UK could physically walk into a book store in the USA and have it emailed to their device in the UK.

Oh the horror!!!

nabrum · 12-24-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stustaff

Madness.

Even assuming i like going to this place and browsing the books, once I have chosen them why would i then queue up and buy them their?
...... At the moment if im in town I may wander into a bookstore and have a browse and then i use amazons iphone app to take a pic of each book and auto add it to my amazon wishlist, then when i get home I look at it and see what I want to buy and where from.

And when those bookstores go out of business because of people like you, where will you browse and take pics for your wishlist?

MaggieScratch · 12-24-2009, 11:12 AM

This idea is at least a step in the right direction. Many people enjoy the bookstore and browsing experience, and it's going to be a challenge to incorporate ebooks into that experience. At least they are trying something.

However, for me at least, I like to buy a book and then perhaps get a beverage and sit in the cafe and read. It would be nice to be able to download the book (or a sample) and enjoy it with a beverage, before or after you buy the book. Getting an e-mail link that you have to go home and download doesn't work in that scenario--unless, of course, you read on a smartphone or other device that also has e-mail capability, in which case you'll have the book on your device immediately.

That's one thing I like about the nook--you still get that bookstore experience. You can browse, perhaps look at the paper books and then fire up the nook and see if it's available, and then even read a little while you enjoy a beverage (which you got at a slight discount due to the coupon sent to your nook). Not everyone buys that way, but many people do, and value the bookstore experience, as Zelda pointed out.

I think perhaps a combination of the e-mail delivery (which will be perfectly fine for many people) and a bookstore kiosk or computer for immediate download will be the best way for independent bookstores to go. Remember not every ebook reader uses SD cards. I know that is an expense, but perhaps a cooperative could be set up that will place computers/kiosks/whatever in each participating independent store. I don't even know if you would need a full-blown PC for such an activity. A dedicated touchscreen tablet device with specialized software would work. That way kids messing around couldn't load it with crapware.

radleyp · 12-24-2009, 11:38 AM

When I was growing up, bookstores did not serve coffee (there was a New Yorker cartoon when this first started, showing a man complaining to the store clerk, "What, no cafe latte and you call yourself a bookstore!") Bookstores sold books, period! Now a bookstore melds the book sales with the services of a library (you can sit and read!) and cafe, unthinkable two decades ago. And from what I see now, bookstores as we know them will either change or disappear: this is an effort at change though not, I think, a good one. Much better and simpler (and predicted some years ago) is providing a kiosk where you can download a book on the spot (understanding that you must have your reader with you).

And, please, those who do, stop using this idiotic term, "liseuse". I speak French as I do English, and I see absolutely no reason for it: it has no connection to any English word (and the English speaker has no idea how to pronounce it), it feminizes the device (because French imposes gender, though it could also have made it masculine), and the device was not invented in France.

Happy Holidays to everyone!

pilotbob · 12-24-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barcey

This will never work. How will they enforce the geographical restrictions the same way as an internet store. Someone from the UK could physically walk into a book store in the USA and have it emailed to their device in the UK.

Oh the horror!!!

Actually, this would be ok... since the point of purchase would be the US.

BOb

(Yes I know you were kidding.)

Penforhire · 12-24-2009, 11:53 AM

That Starbucks idea is huge! I'm one of those who frequently buys a cup of ordinary coffee over lunch and sits there to read. Bookstores would have no chance, given the already-social aspect at the coffee shop. I agree the social angle is valuable but I go to bookstores now just to browse and chat... as well as here!

Greg Anos · 12-24-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Yes, but you have to go there to get the physical product. I don't think that's the same thing. You can say the same thing about bottled water... people buy what comes out of the tap in a bottle... I'm not sure why.

But, look at physical DVD rental places. They are dropping like flies. It is due to Netflix and digital on-demand movie rentals and sales.

If people can get the SAME product without going to a store they will. Look at digital banking... I bank online. I pretty much never go to the bank anymore... there is no need. If the bank put a kiosk that allowed me to access my account over there web interface... would I go to the bank to do that. No....

I think ebooks sustaining a physical store is a pipe dream. If the p-books aren't sustaining the store it will go out of business.

BOb

DVD has a different problem. People have been building libraries of DVD's for 10+ years. With the difficult economic times, they tend to rewatch what they've got, and not buy more. Those who only watch a movie once are basically a rental market anyway, whether it's Blockbuster (rental store) or Netflix (rental by mail). The big money was in the the first 5-10 years, getting people to convert from larger, lower quality tapes to DVDs. That is pretty much over now, as virtually all popular titles (and a large number of cult/fan titles have already been converted).

Hollywood dreams of everybody rolling their DVDs into a ball and pitching them out a window, and rebuying their entire library over again in Blue-Ray, but that doesn't seem to be happening yet....

radleyp · 12-24-2009, 11:58 AM

You make a very good point: Starbucks (and similar coffee shops) is a good place to read! Starbucks is already a major seller of cd's, so why not books (or, better, ebooks from a kiosk)? Moreover, two of the biggest booksellers in the US today are not bookstores at all: Costco and Walmart are general purpose stores that also sell cd's and blenders and tires and lots of food! That surely tells us that the bookseller as we have known it is changing!

calvin-c · 12-24-2009, 12:01 PM

IMO this is a workaround solution for the geographic restrictions. As such, its 'life' is limited since I do believe that, eventually, laws & contracts will get updated to remove those restrictions on ebook sales. But I have no idea when so, even if this is seen as having a 'limited' life, that doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile-what if the limit is 20 years?

As such, I suspect it will be more common outside the US. Although I wonder-could this be combined with mail order? As I understand it, with mail order the place of sale is the store...interesting ideas, even if all they do is point out the insanity of applying geographic restrictions to ebook distribution in the first place.

Greg Anos · 12-24-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radleyp

When I was growing up, bookstores did not serve coffee (there was a New Yorker cartoon when this first started, showing a man complaining to the store clerk, "What, no cafe latte and you call yourself a bookstore!") Bookstores sold books, period! Now a bookstore melds the book sales with the services of a library (you can sit and read!) and cafe, unthinkable two decades ago. And from what I see now, bookstores as we know them will either change or disappear: this is an effort at change though not, I think, a good one. Much better and simpler (and predicted some years ago) is providing a kiosk where you can download a book on the spot (understanding that you must have your reader with you).

And, please, those who do, stop using this idiotic term, "liseuse". I speak French as I do English, and I see absolutely no reason for it: it has no connection to any English word (and the English speaker has no idea how to pronounce it), it feminizes the device (because French imposes gender, though it could also have made it masculine), and the device was not invented in France.

Happy Holidays to everyone!

Pardon me for breathin', Pilgrim. My diction is my choice. If I choose to use frimp or tanj, or Klono or liseuse, that's my business....

jasonkchapman · 12-24-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radleyp

You make a very good point: Starbucks (and similar coffee shops) is a good place to read! Starbucks is already a major seller of cd's, so why not books (or, better, ebooks from a kiosk)? Moreover, two of the biggest booksellers in the US today are not bookstores at all: Costco and Walmart are general purpose stores that also sell cd's and blenders and tires and lots of food! That surely tells us that the bookseller as we have known it is changing!

Isn't this exactly what Barnes & Noble is aiming for with the nook? At least in the US, that is. They're combining the b&m browsing/Starbucks experience with in-store wi-fi access and e-book browsing and purchasing. I can't believe this wasn't their primary motivation for the way the device and service are organized.

Let's face it, the one place in which e-books fail miserably is the browsing and shopping experience. While some people who have gone e-book don't care about that, a great many others do, even those of us who do read e-books. It's also just about the only way to convert a large portion of p-only readers, which the industry needs to do in order to get the numbers high enough to make the publishers care about what e-book buyers think.

Jack Tingle · 12-24-2009, 01:31 PM

Which is, of course, why Whispernet was such a brilliant idea. The cell phone network is Jeff Bezos's kiosk. My general rule on ebooks is never underestimate Amazon, or the French. Since Mobipocket is French, that's a two-fer. Bezos knows how to sell books, and the French have always been ahead of the curve in deploying large amounts of IT as widely as possible.

I still want that hot orange number from the video, though.

Regards,
Jack Tingle

Argel · 12-24-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I used to love to go to the bookstore and browse and buy a stack. Used to do it at a few used books stores and hit garage sales when I had less budget to spend.

But, with my Kindle I don't need to do this anymore.... so I don't.

BOb

This is the heart of the matter. It comes down to the age-old tension between the way I would like the world to be and what I am prepared to put into the pot to make the world that way.

I would like to see a world of local shops owned and staffed by people who love their work and where I interact with everyone in my community. The trouble is that I shop at what our American cousins call the 'mall' or the supermarket or online, partly because it is easier and partly because the actual local shops are owned and staffed by people who couldn't give a toss and I don't know anyone in my community anyway.

There are two possibilities:

1) We can all discipline ourselves to act in such a way as to bring about the world we desire;

2) We can be made to behave in the way that creates the world we desire.

Number one isn't going to happen because we're all too selfish.

The only answer is number two - you need to make me dictator. I will guarantee to create a world in which you will all be happy and fulfilled. You will relax in cosy bookshops owned by knowledgeable bibliophiles who have all the time in the world to discuss the merits of their wares before zapping them into your liseuse (the the only word allowed by law).

So vote for me. It's the last vote you will ever need to bother casting. Or we could all stop whining and accept that the world we have is the world we make and always will be.

Until the comet hits us, that is.

radleyp · 12-24-2009, 02:38 PM

Now that I think more about it, I realize that an in-store kiosk is likely unnecessary: if you can download wirelessly, you can download anywhere, in or out of a bookstore. And since both the Kindle and the Nook allow me to access the store, I have the catalogue that any kiosk would provide. This makes me wonder even more about the eventual disappearance of the bookstore.

Ralph Sir Edward: my apologies, I did not mean to come on so strong. As a French speaker, I do not understand the use of a French word for this ever more popular device, but that's my problem. Incidentally, my comment was not addressed to you in particular, others in this thread use that word (which, of course, was the subject of another long thread).

12-24-2009, 11:38 AM	#35
radleyp Evangelist Posts: 499 Karma: 20623 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Salem & NYC, NY Device: Kindle Global, iphone4, ipad	When I was growing up, bookstores did not serve coffee (there was a New Yorker cartoon when this first started, showing a man complaining to the store clerk, "What, no cafe latte and you call yourself a bookstore!") Bookstores sold books, period! Now a bookstore melds the book sales with the services of a library (you can sit and read!) and cafe, unthinkable two decades ago. And from what I see now, bookstores as we know them will either change or disappear: this is an effort at change though not, I think, a good one. Much better and simpler (and predicted some years ago) is providing a kiosk where you can download a book on the spot (understanding that you must have your reader with you). And, please, those who do, stop using this idiotic term, "liseuse". I speak French as I do English, and I see absolutely no reason for it: it has no connection to any English word (and the English speaker has no idea how to pronounce it), it feminizes the device (because French imposes gender, though it could also have made it masculine), and the device was not invented in France. Happy Holidays to everyone! Last edited by radleyp; 12-24-2009 at 11:49 AM.

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12-24-2009, 07:29 AM	#31
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,549 Karma: 19500001 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	I think I would like the bookstores if they were like my ideal bookstore (wich might be like Zelda's real bookstore), but the bookstores I know are not nice places. They are full of books, right... but they sorting method in arbitrary and sometimes inexistent. All I see is the spines of books (and I have to turn my head one side and the other to read them) and n times the cover of the latest bestseller (a book written by some TV star, a book about some TV star, a cookbook by a TV star, a guide about TV stars... and Harry Potter). The booksellers don't know that much about books either, they just know how to search their computer systems to check whether they have a particular book or not. Visiting a bookstore in September is a suicide too... they're full of kids and parents buying school textbooks, you can't hardly move there. Maybe it's me, but I can only find a real (not ideal) bookstore useful if I know in advance the book (or author) I want to buy, otherwise I just lose my time and get disappointed.

12-24-2009, 10:31 AM	#32
Barcey Wizard Posts: 1,531 Karma: 8059866 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Device: Kobo H2O / Aura HD / Glo / iPad3	This will never work. How will they enforce the geographical restrictions the same way as an internet store. Someone from the UK could physically walk into a book store in the USA and have it emailed to their device in the UK. Oh the horror!!!

12-24-2009, 11:12 AM	#34
MaggieScratch Has got to the black veil Posts: 542 Karma: 2144168 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania Device: Kobo Aura One, Kindle Paperwhite 2	This idea is at least a step in the right direction. Many people enjoy the bookstore and browsing experience, and it's going to be a challenge to incorporate ebooks into that experience. At least they are trying something. However, for me at least, I like to buy a book and then perhaps get a beverage and sit in the cafe and read. It would be nice to be able to download the book (or a sample) and enjoy it with a beverage, before or after you buy the book. Getting an e-mail link that you have to go home and download doesn't work in that scenario--unless, of course, you read on a smartphone or other device that also has e-mail capability, in which case you'll have the book on your device immediately. That's one thing I like about the nook--you still get that bookstore experience. You can browse, perhaps look at the paper books and then fire up the nook and see if it's available, and then even read a little while you enjoy a beverage (which you got at a slight discount due to the coupon sent to your nook). Not everyone buys that way, but many people do, and value the bookstore experience, as Zelda pointed out. I think perhaps a combination of the e-mail delivery (which will be perfectly fine for many people) and a bookstore kiosk or computer for immediate download will be the best way for independent bookstores to go. Remember not every ebook reader uses SD cards. I know that is an expense, but perhaps a cooperative could be set up that will place computers/kiosks/whatever in each participating independent store. I don't even know if you would need a full-blown PC for such an activity. A dedicated touchscreen tablet device with specialized software would work. That way kids messing around couldn't load it with crapware.

12-24-2009, 11:53 AM	#37
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	That Starbucks idea is huge! I'm one of those who frequently buys a cup of ordinary coffee over lunch and sits there to read. Bookstores would have no chance, given the already-social aspect at the coffee shop. I agree the social angle is valuable but I go to bookstores now just to browse and chat... as well as here!

12-24-2009, 11:58 AM	#39
radleyp Evangelist Posts: 499 Karma: 20623 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Salem & NYC, NY Device: Kindle Global, iphone4, ipad	You make a very good point: Starbucks (and similar coffee shops) is a good place to read! Starbucks is already a major seller of cd's, so why not books (or, better, ebooks from a kiosk)? Moreover, two of the biggest booksellers in the US today are not bookstores at all: Costco and Walmart are general purpose stores that also sell cd's and blenders and tires and lots of food! That surely tells us that the bookseller as we have known it is changing!

12-24-2009, 12:01 PM	#40
calvin-c Guru Posts: 787 Karma: 1575310 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: Moon+ Pro	IMO this is a workaround solution for the geographic restrictions. As such, its 'life' is limited since I do believe that, eventually, laws & contracts will get updated to remove those restrictions on ebook sales. But I have no idea when so, even if this is seen as having a 'limited' life, that doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile-what if the limit is 20 years? As such, I suspect it will be more common outside the US. Although I wonder-could this be combined with mail order? As I understand it, with mail order the place of sale is the store...interesting ideas, even if all they do is point out the insanity of applying geographic restrictions to ebook distribution in the first place.

12-24-2009, 01:31 PM	#43
Jack Tingle Punctuation Fetishist Posts: 557 Karma: 1070000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Bluest Commonwealth In East America Device: Kindle PW, Nexus 7 (2013), Galaxy S5 phone, Galaxy Tab 4 8.0	Which is, of course, why Whispernet was such a brilliant idea. The cell phone network is Jeff Bezos's kiosk. My general rule on ebooks is never underestimate Amazon, or the French. Since Mobipocket is French, that's a two-fer. Bezos knows how to sell books, and the French have always been ahead of the curve in deploying large amounts of IT as widely as possible. I still want that hot orange number from the video, though. Regards, Jack Tingle

12-24-2009, 02:38 PM	#45
radleyp Evangelist Posts: 499 Karma: 20623 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Salem & NYC, NY Device: Kindle Global, iphone4, ipad	Now that I think more about it, I realize that an in-store kiosk is likely unnecessary: if you can download wirelessly, you can download anywhere, in or out of a bookstore. And since both the Kindle and the Nook allow me to access the store, I have the catalogue that any kiosk would provide. This makes me wonder even more about the eventual disappearance of the bookstore. Ralph Sir Edward: my apologies, I did not mean to come on so strong. As a French speaker, I do not understand the use of a French word for this ever more popular device, but that's my problem. Incidentally, my comment was not addressed to you in particular, others in this thread use that word (which, of course, was the subject of another long thread).