How to get Amazon to stop accepting returned Kindle ebooks

[scveteran]

Originally Posted by Harmon

I don't expect the comparison to be exact. But it's close enough, I think for pointing out that the behavior is assumed by Amazon to be nefarious, when it's entirely possible that it isn't.

It should be entirely possible for Amazon to allow people to "check out" a book to browse. If the library can do it for three weeks, Amazon could do it for the 15 or 20 minutes it would take to see if a book fit your needs.

Amazon already gives you a sample chapter. That should be enough.

I would also point out that Amazon is a business and as such are not going to work like your local library.

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by scveteran

Amazon already gives you a sample chapter. That should be enough.

I would also point out that Amazon is a business and as such are not going to work like your local library.

Would that be like the movie previews you see? How many times have you seen an exciting preview, only to be disappointed by the full movie?

As far as that goes, how many times have you read the excerpt at the front of some books, only to find that it presented the only interesting part of the book?

If the sample were random, then I'd tend to agree-but AFAIK they're chosen by Amazon. They *might* not be chosen to present the most interesting part of the book, but they also might be-as long as Amazon chooses them, you don't really know.

I don't expect Amazon to work like my library, but I would appreciate it if they'd work like my bookstore. The bookstore *will* object if I spend an hour or two reading a book-but they have no objection if I spend 15 minutes flipping thru it, spot reading more than one selection.

[Ea]

So far, the samples I have seen (Amazon + others) have been the first 5-10% of the book. Also, as far as I know, they're supplied by the publisher, not the seller.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by scveteran

I know the members here do read more than the average person, but I don't know that many people who buy more than two books every single month.

Me, me! More than two books every single week, indeed

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by scveteran

Amazon already gives you a sample chapter. That should be enough.

I would also point out that Amazon is a business and as such are not going to work like your local library.

I have to agree. There are not in business to "loan" books, but to "sell" books.

The Sample should be enough to determine if it's for you.

[Achilles]

The problem I see with this idea is that you could get your sample for your 15 or 20 minutes and then just turn off your wireless. They'd have no way to delete it. Unless it had some kind of time-bomb built into the book...

Originally Posted by Harmon

I don't expect the comparison to be exact. But it's close enough, I think for pointing out that the behavior is assumed by Amazon to be nefarious, when it's entirely possible that it isn't.

It should be entirely possible for Amazon to allow people to "check out" a book to browse. If the library can do it for three weeks, Amazon could do it for the 15 or 20 minutes it would take to see if a book fit your needs.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by scveteran

Amazon already gives you a sample chapter. That should be enough.

I would also point out that Amazon is a business and as such are not going to work like your local library.

When I go to a brick-and-mortar bookstore, I can look at the entire book, not the first 10%, before deciding whether to buy it. I can read the whole thing standing there in the store if I want.

No reason Amazon shouldn't also have 100% previews, only viewable on the site through the Kindle.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by calvin-c

Would that be like the movie previews you see? How many times have you seen an exciting preview, only to be disappointed by the full movie?

But I don't demand my money back every time I'm disappointed by the full movie after an exciting preview, as much as I'd like to *cough*phantom menace*cough*

[TallMomof2]

I buy waaaay too many books and one-click doesn't help impulse purchases but over the years I've disciplined myself to only use the one-click when I'm absolutely sure that I want the item. If there is any doubt it goes into the shopping cart so I can take a little more time to consider the potential purchase.

I have returned one Kindle book, a cookbook, for formatting issues. There were no chapter links and I was too lazy to add bookmarks. In all the years I've purchased from Amazon I've returned a handful of items.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by scveteran

Amazon already gives you a sample chapter. That should be enough.

Not for some kinds of books. If you read back in the thread, you'll see I was talking about technical books. Amazon's choice of samples is simply the first bunch of pages, maybe encompasing the first whole chapter. That's certainly fine for fiction. Not so fine for history, where you would want to review the index. Not worth a damn for any decent science or finance book.

Originally Posted by scveteran

I would also point out that Amazon is a business and as such are not going to work like your local library.

This is from a news item about the Nook: "When connected to the store's Wi-Fi network, you'll someday be able to browse full e-books on your Nook while in the store. However, this feature, too, has its limitations: it only works for up to an hour per title during any given 24-hour period." http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5926649.shtml

In other words, B&N already plans to do what I suggest Amazon should do.

[gertie01]

When I first got my Kindle I "accidentally" purchased a few books. The default on the first Store page is BUY, and if you accidentally press down on the controller---boom you have bought it. Until you get used to that default and using the button--this probably has nothing to do with these returns mentioned above, but it is way too easy to accidentally make a purchase if you are not used to that controller. I actually avoid browsing on my Kindle these days and do most of my purchases online. I think it is wrong to have BUY as a default---

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by Ea

So far, the samples I have seen (Amazon + others) have been the first 5-10% of the book. Also, as far as I know, they're supplied by the publisher, not the seller.

IMO it doesn't matter who selects it, if it's not the potential buyer. (Or maybe I should say, if it's someone who wants to sell the book.) The fixed method you mention comes a close second to a random sample, but it's not quite as good. As I recall from a writing class, the start of a story was supposed to 'hook' the reader-so logically speaking, it should be more interesting than the rest of the book and thus not a very good sample.

Originally Posted by kjk

But I don't demand my money back every time I'm disappointed by the full movie after an exciting preview, as much as I'd like to *cough*phantom menace*cough*

No more do I, but I'm not trying to justify the returns mentioned by the OP, I'm trying to point out why samples selected by the seller (or by someone interested in selling the book, whether the actual seller or not) aren't the best choice to judge the overall quality of the book.

But, as with much of life, you made do with what's available. I'd very much like Amazon (and others) to provide random samples (or present a table of contents & allow potential buyers to select, say, two chapters-or something like that). But they don't so I do the best with what they do provide. I just don't try to say it's good enough, because IMO, it isn't. But it is what's available.

[Ea]

What I think this thread has made clear is, that while the majority of us don't think that it's okay to return an ebook primarily on the grounds that 'I don't like it' - it also shows that the there might be some improvement of the possibilty to evaluate the item before you buy.

With physical items bought online, we can (usually) return them provided they are in the same state as when received, but that notion doesn't really work with digital files. We need some equivalent to browse the book as you might be able to in a bookseller's.

The main problem is probably that if you provide the user with the whole book, the user may copy it without paying - and no seller would be especially happy with such a solution. But the first 5-10% percent or all of chapter 1 is not always a good solution either. For a variety of non-fiction books especially, it would be great to get a broader example. Personally, I think Google Books' solution (when allowed by the publisher) to show about half or one third of the book, simply by showing select chapters throughout the book is a good idea. It should give you enough of an impression (in comparison with browsing a physical book) to know if you want to buy the book or not.

As for fiction, even while a story is supposed to 'hook' a reader quickly, I don't think it's especially fair to anyone, reader and author alike, to pull a sample from the middle of a fiction book. As a reader, it cheats me of getting to know the story as the author intended and start at the beginning - and it would probably not make much sense either. As an author I wouldn't like it very much either - random samples just don't work very well with fiction, but a decent sized reading sample would - for example the first 10% of the book. That would show me if I like the author's style and if the story hooked me, and that's what really important. Non-fiction is a quite different thing and I don't know if we can even discuss it in the same paragraphs. For non-fiction, random samples and the index would be important.

[calvin-c]

Your point about different sampling methods being appropriate for different genres (if that's the correct term to distinguish between fiction, non-fiction, history, biography, technical, etc.) is well-taken. One thing that annoys me about fiction 'samples' is when the sample basically consists of raving about how good it is rather than what the story is about.

Maybe it's me, but unless it's part of a series (of which I've read one or more) then I like to read a plot summary before I decide whether or not to buy. James Patterson is a good example. I like anything in Women's Murder Club, and many 'stand-alone' novels, but others (like Suzanne's Diary) leave me cold. A 'sample' that just tells me Patterson's the hottest writer since Hemingway (or whatever) is good enough for a WMC book (for me) but not for a standalone. Give me enough information to make an intelligent decision. I've been burned too often to extend very much trust towards someone who wants money from me.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by scveteran

...

When you're willing to take responsibility what you type in your posts, I'll answer your questions.

And no, of course just because you disagree with me you're not automatically a shill. When you behave like a shill, though, don't be surprised when I call you one. Upset? Heck no, lol. You're just another random handwaver on a forum thinking I care beyond accurately pointing out what you type.

If you want to get me upset, hire me then don't pay me.