Classic The nook is bad for eBooks

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by user_none

I would like to add, this DRM (at least on the PDB files, but I'm reasonably sure it's the same for the EPUBs) does not use the entire credit card number. It only uses the last half. If someone were to brute force the credit card number they would only end up with a partial number. The reader applications like B&N Reader ask for the full number but only part of the number is actually needed for the decryption.

Good point and absolutely correct. I'd forgotten about that.

[Barcey]

This is as much Sony's fault as it is B&N's fault. If the blame needs to fall it should be on the IDPF and Adobe.

The IDPF failed because they should have made it clear that you can't market an ebook as ePub if you apply DRM to it. It should have been clear to market it as the proprietary DRM you applied.

Adobe has failed because they have come out with multiple versions of their DRM but haven't come out with market branding to distinguish them. Their spokesman has referred to this as "unfortunate short term confusion for the consumers".

B&N should be marketing the ebooks as ACSv4 with a note that ACSv3 rendering software can't read it.

Sony should be marketing their ADE reading software as ACSv3.

Instead everyone wants to pretend they are using an open standard and it's the consumer that pays the price.

[nikkie]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

Not quite accurate... pdb is the old eReader format (Which uses the Palm DB format, hence pdb as the extension). B&N is still selling in both formats right now, so you will get a mish-mash of both buying from them right now.

Both pdb and epub from B&N will come with the eReader DRM (e-mail/CC authorization), minus any DRM-free content.

You're right, I didn't realize they were still selling in both formats. The epubs from B&N aren't using the ereader DRM though, it's the new ADE DRM, which happens to also use email/CC authorization.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Barcey

This is as much Sony's fault as it is B&N's fault. If the blame needs to fall it should be on the IDPF and Adobe.

The IDPF failed because they should have made it clear that you can't market an ebook as ePub if you apply DRM to it. It should have been clear to market it as the proprietary DRM you applied.

Adobe has failed because they have come out with multiple versions of their DRM but haven't come out with market branding to distinguish them. Their spokesman has referred to this as "unfortunate short term confusion for the consumers".

B&N should be marketing the ebooks as ACSv4 with a note that ACSv3 rendering software can't read it.

Sony should be marketing their ADE reading software as ACSv3.

Instead everyone wants to pretend they are using an open standard and it's the consumer that pays the price.

Well Said!

[sunebird]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It's not your fault. it's B&N's fault. Noplace in their eBook listings does it say the eBook is ePub and no place (in the eBooks listing) does it mention the DRM. So B&N is selling you something without giving you all the facts. You download a sample and it's ePub and it works with ADE. So you think the full eBook will be ok and it's not. Have you contacted B&N to get your money back? If they won't do so, go to your credit card company to get your money back.

Barnes & Noble customer service will NOT give refunds on downloaded content. I explained that I assumed that epub was a standard format, and that the samples work. How is THAT for customer service!!!

[sunebird]

Originally Posted by Musicman

I disagree with you - It is not B&N's fault.

I think they are clear that their e-books can be read on devices that their ereader program runs on (which includes your PC) or their nook. So you can read the book, just not on your sony reader. They have been up front that their support of Epub was with their social DRM that Adobe was making available next year to others.

What you need to do is have sony implement the ereader DRM in an upgrade of Adobe Digital Editions on their readers when it is available next year.

I still say it is B&N's fault. The average person assumes that if the sample works on their Sony Reader, the purchased book will. I didn't do the research. This is what happened. The news release indicated that Sony and B&N will be changing to the epub format. I was careful, downloaded a sample of the book and it worked. I was great!! I can order this book from B&N because it was available at SONY. I ordered it, and it didn't work. They should have a message "PLEASE NOTE: THIS EPUB WILL NOT WORK ON OTHER READERS"

[sirmaru]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Because B&N has decided to have their own DRM for ePub, they are taking what was to be a standard format for eBooks with DRM and making it an absolute mess.Do you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution?

I just purchased my first BN DRM protected book. After downloading the book I just had to enter my name and credit card number. Then that file can be read on any device by me: PC, Nook, etc. The device ID's are not connected with the book file.

That is in contrast with a Sony DRM protected book I purchased yesterday where the PC had to be registered with ADOBE and my PRS 505 also had to be registered with Sony. Thus, that book file is locked into those two registered devices.

The BN method is far more flexible and less subject to errors.

However, it would be far better if the BN method was adopted by the big three of Amazon, Sony and BN so we could read our books on anyone's devices.

In both cases the books are ePub files as can be determined by viewing the directories on one's PC with Explorer.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

.....
In both cases the books are ePub files as can be determined by viewing the directories on one's PC with Explorer.

Just because it has an epub extension doesn't mean it's epub.

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Right, but since there are now different and incompatible forms of Adobe DRM they should at least list the type of drm and devices it is compatible with on a FAQ sheet or something.

They should also clearly indicate the format of any book you are looking to purchase.

It's just good customer relations and just pisses people off when it is "hidden."

B&N does list the devices that their reader application can be installed on and to me it is very clear. If they read the getting started page they say you need to download their reader software and it lists the Ipod, Itouch, blackberry, PC, Mac and nook as compatible devices. I think this is pretty clear that it won't work on a sony. I have an EZ-Reader that supports Epub and it was clear to me that I could not read B&N Epub on it until there is an update on the software to support the new Adobe/B&N DRM.

The problem I see is that someone read that B&N was going with Epub, but failed to read that it was implementing its social DRM.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Musicman

B&N does list the devices that their reader application can be installed on and to me it is very clear. If they read the getting started page they say you need to download their reader software and it lists the Ipod, Itouch, blackberry, PC, Mac and nook as compatible devices. I think this is pretty clear that it won't work on a sony. I have an EZ-Reader that supports Epub and it was clear to me that I could not read B&N Epub on it until there is an update on the software to support the new Adobe/B&N DRM.

The problem I see is that someone read that B&N was going with Epub, but failed to read that it was implementing its social DRM.

No, it's way less than up-front and clear. It says epub and without any further details, the implication is that it will work on standard epub readers. The sin of omission -- the fact that something is NOT listed is misleading as is the fact that you can download the sample and read it on your Sony.

The problem is they DON'T SAY it's different, just like they didn't say that you could only lend a book one time. They are being slimy. Plus the no returns is just wrong. Can you say anti-customer?

I keep hoping these companies will some day understand, but they keep proving me wrong.

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by kennyc

No, it's way less than up-front and clear. It says epub and without any further details, the implication is that it will work on standard epub readers. The sin of omission -- the fact that something is NOT listed is misleading as is the fact that you can download the sample and read it on your Sony.

Where on their site does it say Epub??

Right on the Ebook tab under getting started there is an option that says supported devices....

The sample obviously had no DRM - If I was going to try this I would have downloaded some free books - made sure they had DRM and tried to read those.

I just feel that personal responsibility comes into play - it isn't always someone elses fault.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by sunebird

I have been mislead. I have a Sony Reader. My fault for not doing my research. I downloaded a sample from B&N and it opened up no problem on the Sony Reader. So I bought a book and tried opening and I got the DRM message on the Sony Reader. B&N should warn people before they check out that even though the book is epub, It will not work on the Sony Reader. B&N refuses to refund my money, nor take away the DRM. I have legally purchased this book, so I should have the right to read it on the device of my choice.

Call your credit card company and dispute the charge. Tell them that B&N misrepresented a material fact about the product they sent you. The material fact is that by giving you a sample that worked on your Reader, they were representing that the product itself would work on your Reader.

If you are angry enough about it, follow it up with a letter to your state attorney general's consumer fraud division, copy to B&N & your credit card company.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by kennyc

. The sin of omission -- the fact that something is NOT listed is misleading as is the fact that you can download the sample and read it on your Sony.

Absolutely correct. If the sample works on your reader, that's an implied representation that the product works on your reader, unless it is clearly revealed at the time you download the sample that the product itself might not work even if the sample does.

Of course, one could follow my rule, which is to always assume that whatever you are trying to buy won't work on your reader, unless it is clearly stated otherwise.

[stangri]

I fail to see the point of the topic (nook is bad for ebooks). I see that the nook is great for eBooks -- it reads pretty much everything bought elsewhere and uses modern software. The other e-ink devices are clearly inferior to nook and by being outdated they are bad for ebooks.

[netseeker]

Originally Posted by stangri

The other e-ink devices are clearly inferior to nook and by being outdated they are bad for ebooks.

The last thing this threads needs is another e-ink device war!