USAToday on publishers' backlash - Page 2

rcuadro · 12-11-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

3. If I have to wait 4-6 months, I'll either probably forget about the book or spend my money on a book I can buy instantly in ebook form.

Exactly!

charleski · 12-11-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

2. I know how to troll the darker sections of the web for timely digital editions of much-wanted books.

One thing we can be sure of. Just as making threats of piracy doesn't work in influencing games companies, it's unlikely to work in changing the behaviour of publishers.

Publishers, like any other business, know that the way to make money is to meet the needs of their customers. But the fact is, they want your money, and they want to know what they can do to get more of it, welcome to capitalism. They certainly don't want the book market to evolve into a state in which their profits go down. I find it hard to blame them for that.

brecklundin · 12-11-2009, 07:00 PM

I just think they don't get it....the genie is out of the bottle and is not going back in....ever. Let the publishers die off, I don't care because they also do not care about the consumer and what we want...screw them all. I am pretty tired of the attempts at global price fixing and manipulation which is in every market and product type.

Sydney's Mom · 12-12-2009, 12:41 PM

Yes, there is cannibilization, but it is not due to price. It is due to convenience. I don't like the bulk of hbooks.

kindlekitten · 12-12-2009, 01:30 PM

I think it is very different! there are not the sheer quantities of games out there and coming all of the time. and authors have the ability to tell their publishers to get their act together

pilotbob · 12-12-2009, 01:40 PM

I really wonder if there has been any study about this. If you sell 3 ebooks for $10 to every 1 that you might have sold for $25 aren't you ahead of the game?

Frankly, I never bought hard covers. I never felt they were worth the price. There are so many back catalog books that I can read now...

Actually that's not 100% accurate. I have bought hard covers once they were moved to the "bargin book" section cause the paper back had come out, and they were usually priced lower than the paperback.

We have also bought the Harry Potter books in hard cover. But if I recall correctly they were only about $12 each not $25. (We bought 5 copies of Deathly Hallows and 1 audio version on CD.)

BOb

texasnightowl · 12-12-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Frankly, I never bought hard covers. I never felt they were worth the price. There are so many back catalog books that I can read now...

Actually that's not 100% accurate. I have bought hard covers once they were moved to the "bargin book" section cause the paper back had come out, and they were usually priced lower than the paperback.

We have also bought the Harry Potter books in hard cover. But if I recall correctly they were only about $12 each not $25. (We bought 5 copies of Deathly Hallows and 1 audio version on CD.)

BOb

I've never felt they were worth the price either...especially once they passed the $20 mark. Any hardbacks I have, and I do have a few...Cussler, Jance, Robb, and Rowling...I paid a max price of $18 for. Usually closer to $14-$16. These $25 hardbacks? I will never buy.

The hardbacks I'm buying right now? Copies of Little House on the Prairie to replace my 20+ yr old worn out paperbacks. Price? Around $12 each.

GhostHawk · 12-12-2009, 06:02 PM

For myself, 75% or more of my books came from either a dedicated 2nd hand bookstore, where I was able to buy at 25% or less of retail price. Or a Thriftshop/secondhand store with a few shelves of books, where I could typically pick up paperbacks for 25-50 cents, hardcovers for 1-2$.

The rest was either birthday or christmas presents,Gift card to B&N etc, or every other year or so I'd join the Science Fiction book club, pick my 6 or 7 books for pennys, and buy 3 more over the course of the year.

Yes, I was an early adopter of Ebook readers.
No, I never was a hot off the press hardcover buyer.
I do have a pretty fair collection. (BTW anyone want a ton or so of paper books? Make me an offer

)

goldilocks · 12-12-2009, 06:29 PM

Well, the only time I bought hard cover books was at the Dollar Tree or from the markdown area.

So no lost sale from me. I did subscribe to the Reader's Digest Condensed books which are hard cover. Got about a dozen (each one has several stories). Don't think I finished reading them. I even bought paperback books on clearance or from the thrift store. So the publishers are getting more money from me now.

I don't care to read hard cover books. I can't fold them back and get comfortable!

But, I don't think the Publishers can blame eBook readers for the drop in sales entirely. In this economy who wants to pay $20 and up for a book! I can get several books for that price.

crutnacker · 12-13-2009, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

What's more, "As e-books grow as a category, there will be cannibalization," Epps says. "The early adopter buying an e-reader device happens to be the same customer who would have bought a hardcover book."

I disagree with this too. 99.9% of my reading is done from books at my public library. Net gain from publishers from me.... $0.00.

I'm getting an e-reader because it offers me the opportunity to buy books at $9.99 that I would have simply put on reserve at my local library if they cost $30 to purchase.

These devices allow publishers to sell books without a lot of expensive drawbacks (the costs of paper publishing, books being resold, returned, lent, etc.). If publishers don't get in the game, it wouldn't be hard to imagine B&N or Amazon cutting out the publisher altogether and offering established authors a huge chunk of the price of an e-book in exchange for exclusive rights to publish it. Certainly printing technology is such that these companies could even produce a paperback on demand to sell if necessary.

crutnacker · 12-13-2009, 02:17 AM

Consider one of my favorite authors, Robert B. Parker. He now writes comic book length books that you can read in the time it takes for your average poo. I would NEVER pay $25.00 for one of his triple spaced, 18 point font novels. But I certainly might pay $9.99 to read it the week it came out.

Moejoe · 12-13-2009, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crutnacker

Consider one of my favorite authors, Robert B. Parker. He now writes comic book length books that you can read in the time it takes for your average poo. I would NEVER pay $25.00 for one of his triple spaced, 18 point font novels. But I certainly might pay $9.99 to read it the week it came out.

They're 55,000 words, they conform to the standard detective/mystery novel length from when he first started publishing. Not that I'm defending prices here, I'm not, just that I like that length and work towards that length in my own work. Most novels out there, the 80-120k novels are IMHO filled with padding and are even less value.

Also, you must spend a lot of time in the bathroom if you can read a whole Parker in that time

Jack Tingle · 12-13-2009, 09:17 AM

WRT target audiences, I'm one of those people who are categorically opposed to pure solutions.

I buy a few hardbacks (only from favorite authors), a lot of paperbacks, and a good number of non-DRM ebooks. I refuse to buy DRMed books.

What the publishers need to fear (about people like me, particularly) is loss of interest. There's always a new book I want to read coming out. If what I want isn't available when I want it, I move on. The chance of me coming back to a book later in the year, or a year or two later and buying it is small. If you don't have the book I want, in an acceptable format, at an acceptable price, when I'm looking at it, you've lost a sale.

I have no philosophical problem with ebook release at the current pbook price, with the price decending as the book goes from hardcover, to trade, to MMPB. That seems to me to be a fair and rational pricing stragegy. I'll decide my price point by how long I wait. If you keep the backlist available as ebook only, more the better. If publishers were even this rational, I think they'd be ahead.

I tend to agree with the Amazon spokesdroid quoted in the article, though. If it was me, I'd be putting out the book in every format simultaneously, at the best price I think I could get for each format and praying like hell that some _new/shiny_ doesn't come out and put my release under the radar. But that's just me. I hate to see a customer walk out with none of my product, and money left in his hand.

Regards,
Jack Tingle

mrscoach · 12-13-2009, 09:42 AM

I am another that hardly ever buys hardbacks. They are just too dadgum expensive. I did buy 5-7 of Harry Potter in hardback, but only because everyone in the house (okay, not DH, he doesn't read much) wanted them. And we have worn them out and they are falling apart now. But I didn't pay full price for them, either.

Since I live so far from stores that have books I only buy pbooks occasionally. I find I am purchasing ebooks more often, even ignoring the free books I have downloaded. So the publishers are ahead of the game with me in regards to ebooks. They are shooting themselves in the foot as far as I am concerned.

I know they want to maximize their profits, but please. And if they are trying to get back at/stop Amazon from the 9.99 scheme, they are driving away customers in the meantime.

Connallmac · 12-13-2009, 10:17 AM

I have given up buying pbooks almost entirely since I bought my first Kindle in February. That being said, I almost never paid full cover price for any of my books. I have long been a haunter of used book shops and a scavenger at remainder tables in new bookstores. Only rarely did I buy a new release hardcover and only occasionally did I pay their full price, usually ordering from Amazon, and saving quite a bit any way.

Now look at what's happened with Stephen King's new novel, Under the Dome. When it was first offered for pre-orders at Amazon the e-book was offered at the usual $9.99 Kindle price. Then Walmart and Target got into a price war with Amazon over the hard cover, and the Kindle pre-order price fell to $9.00. Now that the hard cover has been out for a while the pre-order price for the Kindle edition has fallen even farther to $7.99. Where will it stop? I would have been happy paying the original price on the pbook release date, but now that they have pushed off the release date of the ebook their price has drifted lower by about 20%. I hope these publishers learn something from this experiment!

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12-11-2009, 07:00 PM	#18
brecklundin Banned Posts: 1,906 Karma: 15348 Join Date: Jun 2007 Device: mine	I just think they don't get it....the genie is out of the bottle and is not going back in....ever. Let the publishers die off, I don't care because they also do not care about the consumer and what we want...screw them all. I am pretty tired of the attempts at global price fixing and manipulation which is in every market and product type.

12-12-2009, 12:41 PM	#19
Sydney's Mom Wizard Posts: 2,899 Karma: 6995721 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Idaho, on the side of a mountain Device: Kindle Oasis, Fire 3d Gen and 5th Gen and Samsung Tab S	Yes, there is cannibilization, but it is not due to price. It is due to convenience. I don't like the bulk of hbooks.

12-12-2009, 01:30 PM	#20
kindlekitten Professional Adventuress Posts: 13,368 Karma: 50260224 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!) Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle	I think it is very different! there are not the sheer quantities of games out there and coming all of the time. and authors have the ability to tell their publishers to get their act together

12-12-2009, 01:40 PM	#21
pilotbob Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,832 Karma: 11844413 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tampa, FL USA Device: Kindle Touch	I really wonder if there has been any study about this. If you sell 3 ebooks for $10 to every 1 that you might have sold for $25 aren't you ahead of the game? Frankly, I never bought hard covers. I never felt they were worth the price. There are so many back catalog books that I can read now... Actually that's not 100% accurate. I have bought hard covers once they were moved to the "bargin book" section cause the paper back had come out, and they were usually priced lower than the paperback. We have also bought the Harry Potter books in hard cover. But if I recall correctly they were only about $12 each not $25. (We bought 5 copies of Deathly Hallows and 1 audio version on CD.) BOb

12-12-2009, 06:02 PM	#23
GhostHawk Data Privateer! Posts: 586 Karma: 62887 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fargo ND Device: Ectaco Jetbook& Jetbook Lite	For myself, 75% or more of my books came from either a dedicated 2nd hand bookstore, where I was able to buy at 25% or less of retail price. Or a Thriftshop/secondhand store with a few shelves of books, where I could typically pick up paperbacks for 25-50 cents, hardcovers for 1-2$. The rest was either birthday or christmas presents,Gift card to B&N etc, or every other year or so I'd join the Science Fiction book club, pick my 6 or 7 books for pennys, and buy 3 more over the course of the year. Yes, I was an early adopter of Ebook readers. No, I never was a hot off the press hardcover buyer. I do have a pretty fair collection. (BTW anyone want a ton or so of paper books? Make me an offer )

12-12-2009, 06:29 PM	#24
goldilocks Addict Posts: 344 Karma: 1222222 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Florida Device: Sony PRS-505	Well, the only time I bought hard cover books was at the Dollar Tree or from the markdown area. So no lost sale from me. I did subscribe to the Reader's Digest Condensed books which are hard cover. Got about a dozen (each one has several stories). Don't think I finished reading them. I even bought paperback books on clearance or from the thrift store. So the publishers are getting more money from me now. I don't care to read hard cover books. I can't fold them back and get comfortable! But, I don't think the Publishers can blame eBook readers for the drop in sales entirely. In this economy who wants to pay $20 and up for a book! I can get several books for that price.

12-13-2009, 02:17 AM	#26
crutnacker Connoisseur Posts: 54 Karma: 850 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: None	Consider one of my favorite authors, Robert B. Parker. He now writes comic book length books that you can read in the time it takes for your average poo. I would NEVER pay $25.00 for one of his triple spaced, 18 point font novels. But I certainly might pay $9.99 to read it the week it came out.

12-13-2009, 09:17 AM	#28
Jack Tingle Punctuation Fetishist Posts: 557 Karma: 1070000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Bluest Commonwealth In East America Device: Kindle PW, Nexus 7 (2013), Galaxy S5 phone, Galaxy Tab 4 8.0	WRT target audiences, I'm one of those people who are categorically opposed to pure solutions. I buy a few hardbacks (only from favorite authors), a lot of paperbacks, and a good number of non-DRM ebooks. I refuse to buy DRMed books. What the publishers need to fear (about people like me, particularly) is loss of interest. There's always a new book I want to read coming out. If what I want isn't available when I want it, I move on. The chance of me coming back to a book later in the year, or a year or two later and buying it is small. If you don't have the book I want, in an acceptable format, at an acceptable price, when I'm looking at it, you've lost a sale. I have no philosophical problem with ebook release at the current pbook price, with the price decending as the book goes from hardcover, to trade, to MMPB. That seems to me to be a fair and rational pricing stragegy. I'll decide my price point by how long I wait. If you keep the backlist available as ebook only, more the better. If publishers were even this rational, I think they'd be ahead. I tend to agree with the Amazon spokesdroid quoted in the article, though. If it was me, I'd be putting out the book in every format simultaneously, at the best price I think I could get for each format and praying like hell that some _new/shiny_ doesn't come out and put my release under the radar. But that's just me. I hate to see a customer walk out with none of my product, and money left in his hand. Regards, Jack Tingle

12-13-2009, 09:42 AM	#29
mrscoach Guru Posts: 767 Karma: 4837659 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: San Angelo Texas Device: Samsung Galaxy tab	I am another that hardly ever buys hardbacks. They are just too dadgum expensive. I did buy 5-7 of Harry Potter in hardback, but only because everyone in the house (okay, not DH, he doesn't read much) wanted them. And we have worn them out and they are falling apart now. But I didn't pay full price for them, either. Since I live so far from stores that have books I only buy pbooks occasionally. I find I am purchasing ebooks more often, even ignoring the free books I have downloaded. So the publishers are ahead of the game with me in regards to ebooks. They are shooting themselves in the foot as far as I am concerned. I know they want to maximize their profits, but please. And if they are trying to get back at/stop Amazon from the 9.99 scheme, they are driving away customers in the meantime.

12-13-2009, 10:17 AM	#30
Connallmac Transplanted NYer Posts: 455 Karma: 520286 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Eastern IN Device: Kindle Fire HD 8.9", Kindle Fire HD 7", Kindle Touch	I have given up buying pbooks almost entirely since I bought my first Kindle in February. That being said, I almost never paid full cover price for any of my books. I have long been a haunter of used book shops and a scavenger at remainder tables in new bookstores. Only rarely did I buy a new release hardcover and only occasionally did I pay their full price, usually ordering from Amazon, and saving quite a bit any way. Now look at what's happened with Stephen King's new novel, Under the Dome. When it was first offered for pre-orders at Amazon the e-book was offered at the usual $9.99 Kindle price. Then Walmart and Target got into a price war with Amazon over the hard cover, and the Kindle pre-order price fell to $9.00. Now that the hard cover has been out for a while the pre-order price for the Kindle edition has fallen even farther to $7.99. Where will it stop? I would have been happy paying the original price on the pbook release date, but now that they have pushed off the release date of the ebook their price has drifted lower by about 20%. I hope these publishers learn something from this experiment!