Simon & Schuster is delaying ebooks by four months

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by wallflower75

You know, I was all set to buy Stephen King's newest. Initial buzz was that it was like the old, great King novels. And then the ebook release was delayed, and I started hearing about how it wasn't so great. So I decided not to get it. Lost sale.

How many books is this going to happen to before publishers get that a sale is still a sale, whether it's hardback, ebook or paperback?

For your money you get about 100pages of old Stephen King (the beginning), another 400 or so pages of boredom (new Stephen King) and that was about it for me. I bought it in hardback, format-shifted through file sharing, deleted not long after. Wasn't worth the £10 I paid for it, or the hassle of finding it on the filesharing networks (although I did meet a lot of very nice people in the process, so I guess it was worth the £10 in the end )

[pdurrant]

To the best of my knowledge, distribution was never a problem for Jim Baen's Universe, as it was always intended as an online-only publication.

The initial launch was made possible by 'club members' who paid more (in some cases considerably more) than a standard subscription, in order to receive special benefits. This was never intended to be a long-term method of funding the magazine, and the lack of sufficient ordinary subscriber growth is the stated reason for the closure.

http://www.baens-universe.com/articles/Universe_Closing

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

OTOH Baen also recently shut down Baen's Universe (magazine) in part because they could not get their distributor (Is it S&S? I Thought it was another of the big names...but I digress). They could not get their distributor to agree to decent terms. I think the distributor was demanding the same terms for the electronic mag as that made for Baen books.

Eric Flint did an article on it...if I remember correctly, BU wanted to expand distribution so they could reach more markets, but the distributor they had an agreement with said, "No, NO, NO." BU was always ebook or cd only--no print. Flint didn't say what Baen wanted to try only that with the current terms, it wouldn't work. So the magazine is shutting down early next year. The article mentioned they'd like to bring it back someday--with a different distribution plan and other things changed. (Pls note that the distribution issue was only ONE part of the reason they shut down and was not the whole article!)

[Daithi]

The big publishers pulling this are stupidheads. To explain why, a little background --

A typical hardcover price is $26 and Amazon will typically receive a discount of 55% off the cover price. This is a discount of $14.30 on a $26 book, so each book costs Amazon $11.70. If Amazon sells the book for $13.00 they get to keep $1.30. If they sell the book for $9.99 then they lose $1.71. Currently Amazon is eating the cost on a lot of ebooks in order to build marketshare.

Why the publishers are stupidheads --

The publishers are making a killing on ebooks. The margin on ebooks is far higher than it is on hardcovers. An ebook doesn't have printing, warehousing, inventory, shipping, and returns costs. So the publisher gets paid $11.70 regardless of the type of book sold, but the cost of producing an ebook is much lower than a hardcover. Therefore, you would think, the publisher would want to sell as many ebooks as possible. If anything, they should release the hardcovers four months after releasing the ebooks. If you get paid $11.70 regardless, but it costs $5.00 to produce an ebook but $8.00 to produce a hardcover then you would be a stupidhead to focus on hardcover sales.

The publishers aren't total stupidheads though. They realize that Amazon will not continue to lose money on ebook sales forever. At some point Amazon is going to tell the publishers that they need to lower the list price of the digital version of the book (Notice that Amazon is now displaying a digital list price on their pages).

In order for Amazon to make the same profit it does on hardcovers ($1.30 in our example) it would require the publisher to offer the books at a digitial list price of $19.31, so the publisher gets $8.69 instead of $11.70. I'm guessing that even at this price the publisher is still making a bigger margin on ebooks than hardcovers. That's why I think the big publishers that are not pushing ebooks hard are stupidheads. They should be doing just the opposite and what they are doing.

This also doesn't even take into consideration that there isn't a used book market and that ebooks don't go out of print.

[amjbrown]

Publishers are dead. In ten years time good editors will team up with good agents who have snared good authors. This will ensure that the best authors reach the market in a branded form (to ensure quality)- and between those three $10 will go a long way! What does an author see from Simon and Schuster these days? I bet it is less than $3.

I can't wait!

We are witnessing the dying throes of the publishing dinosaurs. Bring it on!

And in the meantime, I never used to buy hardbacks because they were too heavy. I am not going to switch to hardbacks from eBooks for the sake of four months.

Muppets

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by amjbrown

Publishers are dead. In ten years time good editors will team up with good agents who have snared good authors. This will ensure that the best authors reach the market in a branded form (to ensure quality)- and between those three $10 will go a long way! What does an author see from Simon and Schuster these days? I bet it is less than $3.

I can't wait!

We are witnessing the dying throes of the publishing dinosaurs. Bring it on!

And in the meantime, I never used to buy hardbacks because they were too heavy. I am not going to switch to hardbacks from eBooks for the sake of four months.

Muppets

I agree, but you can cut the parasitic and useless agents out of that loop for starters. The editors will be writers and vice versa, offering their skills to one another in a non-parasitic, more symbiotic way

An author can expect to see 5 - 10% after NET on any book. $3 is very generous

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by vaughnmr

I'm going to vote with my wallet. These people just lost a customer, and I'll be contacting the authors aligned with this outfit about that fact also.

this is very good and very representative of the new ereader I would think. here we see someone virtually brand new to the boards and having sorted it out immediately. I've been saying this for awhile, and I think it needs to proceed

Originally Posted by Xenophon

Alternatively, these publishers could look at a successful existing solution over at Webscriptions and Baen. The get their die-hard fan tax by selling eARCs (electronic Advance Reader Copies) for $15 to $25; then sell the finished eBook at $6 about two weeks before the hardcover hits the shelf. But by clever disintermediation, they (and their authors) net nearly as much money on each eBook as they would in hardcover (more than trade-paper, but a bit less than HC). And, they get a fair number of double -- or even triple -- sales to fans who purchase ebook and hardcover (and sometimes eArc as well). Cutting out layers of distribution for eBooks is perfectly feasible, and saves money for everyone -- except the distributors, of course. But they add no value in eBook sales.

I won't even mention the cleverness of monthly bundles, and the free library, and snippetting and... oops.

Xenophon

maybe the other publishing houses need to take a business seminar from Baen

Originally Posted by ficbot

I wonder if anybody here would be interested in some sort of organized letter-writing campaign? Here is what I am thinking, we write a bank of form letters for publisher, author and agent. Every time you want to buy a book and do not because of availability, you send off the appropriate letter letting these people know that their actions have cost them a profit. If they get enough of these letters (this is the utility of the form letter, they start to see a few of the same ones and they realize more than one person is having this problem and that these people are organizing!) then perhaps authors can pressure agents who can pressure publishers and so forth. This decision to delay the ebook is directly affecting the people who are most likely to actually BUY a title int he first place, and everyone on the chain needs to know this will affect them personally. What do you think?

I'm in. right now I would venture to guess that this is the biggest collective ereading block out there. I would think we should have some weight

Originally Posted by tmgplc

Another brilliant corporate idea . . . just keep giving me reasons to just find a pirated copy. It sucks enough to pay for the ebook and then make sure it will actually work on your preferred device, but to delay the release will just drive people to piracy. Of course you have a choice whether to steal a book or not, but Under The Dome is on the net in a pirated version. How many of those people would have just paid for the ebook if it was available?

I find it hard to have any sympathy for the publishers when they continue to create their own worst nightmare (music, movies, and now books). My only reason for not just jumping on the piracy bandwagon is that I believe the author should be compensated for their work.

I have both as well. I want King as an author to get his money. I want other authors to get their money. but my inclination to do this is going to trickle away the more publishers dig in their heels and become mules

Originally Posted by Daithi

The big publishers pulling this are stupidheads. To explain why, a little background --

A typical hardcover price is $26 and Amazon will typically receive a discount of 55% off the cover price. This is a discount of $14.30 on a $26 book, so each book costs Amazon $11.70. If Amazon sells the book for $13.00 they get to keep $1.30. If they sell the book for $9.99 then they lose $1.71. Currently Amazon is eating the cost on a lot of ebooks in order to build marketshare.

Why the publishers are stupidheads --

The publishers are making a killing on ebooks. The margin on ebooks is far higher than it is on hardcovers. An ebook doesn't have printing, warehousing, inventory, shipping, and returns costs. So the publisher gets paid $11.70 regardless of the type of book sold, but the cost of producing an ebook is much lower than a hardcover. Therefore, you would think, the publisher would want to sell as many ebooks as possible. If anything, they should release the hardcovers four months after releasing the ebooks. If you get paid $11.70 regardless, but it costs $5.00 to produce an ebook but $8.00 to produce a hardcover then you would be a stupidhead to focus on hardcover sales.

.

thank you for breaking this down. continually seeing the argument that there isn't that much of a difference between e and p book publishing expenses is infuriating at best.
karma

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

To the best of my knowledge, distribution was never a problem for Jim Baen's Universe, as it was always intended as an online-only publication.

The initial launch was made possible by 'club members' who paid more (in some cases considerably more) than a standard subscription, in order to receive special benefits. This was never intended to be a long-term method of funding the magazine, and the lack of sufficient ordinary subscriber growth is the stated reason for the closure.

http://www.baens-universe.com/articles/Universe_Closing

I thought I read it in that article, but it was on the boards. I don't know how to link to the topic, but this was posted by Walt Boyes shortly after the

announcement under the JBU Universe Facts/How Do We Save JBU:

"JBU cannot be saved. Period.

There are a bunch of reasons, but they boil down to the absolute fact that Eric is worth much more to Baen writing novels than editing a magazine. Also, we weren't able to figure out how to get around Baen's agreement with Simon and Schuster for distribution, and that was another one of the deathblows. We also wound up very undercapitalized, which might have been different if Jim had lived. Toni was very supportive throughout this, but this was Jim Baen's baby, and it just didn't live very long.

Several of us are working on developing a new incarnation that is not under the same constraints as JBU. I hope to have a proforma business plan (very rough) done by the end of the month.

..."

There was more to the original post, but I clipped the pertinent info. You do have to be registered to access the boards and as I said, I can't link to just that one topic because of the way the boards work.

I hope that Baen does not mind me reposting that snippet.

Maria

[ginalola]

Originally Posted by Crowl

You do have to wonder at the reasoning of some of these people, it seems like a more logical approach would be to put out the ebook at the same time as the hardback and simply lower its price when the paperback comes out because delays won't actually help hardback sales, but would definitely harm ebook sales.

I so agree on this!! If I want the ebook right away, I will gladly pay the HB price. But to be manipulated like this, no, I will go to the library and read the book for free, and these publishers won't get a dime!!

[rahlquist]

Of all the unbelievable shortsighted moronic ideas. Sure lets delay selling the product with the highest ROI so that we can continue to push the one with the Lowest ROI because we like the old way better. WTH!?!?!?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by rahlquist

Of all the unbelievable shortsighted moronic ideas. Sure lets delay selling the product with the highest ROI so that we can continue to push the one with the Lowest ROI because we like the old way better. WTH!?!?!?

The dinosaurs kept on chewing grass when first they glanced the comets in the sky

[Harmon]

[QUOTE=Sydney's Mom;688523 They just need to realize that a certain portion of their audience has switched to ebooks, and has no desire to accumulate more pbooks. Actually, ebook readers appeal to heavy readers, so they are really shooting themselves in the foot. I was the one who pre-ordered Stephen King, Harry Potter. I didn't wait for the paper back. I actually buy fewer books now, but I am willing to pay more for them. The appeal of the kindle was convenience, not $9.99 books.
[/QUOTE]

It's hard to actually think it's true, but I get the distinct feeling that the publishers don't understand the ebook market. In addition to people like you, who do a complete migration to ebooks, there are people like me, who get most pbooks from used bookstores but who will buy ebooks, and people who never much read pbooks but will buy ebooks for their iphones.

I think that publishers don't grasp that with ebooks in the mix, the pie gets bigger, and they can sell more books. The publishers who get ebook friendly will get a bigger piece of the pie, with ice cream. The publishers who try to protect yesterday's pbook market will get a smaller piece.

[BearMountainBooks]

I think that publishers right now feel they can get away with the 4 month delay (and other tactics) because the ebook market is still something like only 5 percent of overall sales. Their point: They don't *want* it to get bigger for whatever reason. The problem: It's a *growing* market. Other booksale market areas are barely up and often down (usually somewhat dependent on whether a large blockbuster has come out.)

It's all interesting though. I wouldn't have put my books out there if things hadn't gotten significantly better for ebooks and indie authors in general. That said, I get most of my sales for Kindle. Amazon has the eyeballs and reader enthusiasm-- which is another thing that large publishers seem to want to curtail, rather than take advantage of.

[nbvanyoos]

Whether the traditional publishers are in their death throes is probably not the case, yet. The non-fiction market will stay hardcover and dead tree for a while. I still meet many readers who refuse to switch over, so the impetus will be when the younger generation has finally decided to read. They are hard core wired to their iPods and iPhones, so they will only accept electronic media. Ask a teenager how many CDs they have. Point proven.

I remember telling my wife not so many years ago that digital photography would kill film sales. She scoffed at the time-a purest to the end. Hmmm, I haven't seen a lot of film cameras in any tourist's hands lately. How many remember what speed to buy if they wanted to buy film?

How many remember the ol' record store? I used to love them, but now I Rhapsody and wouldn't look back. I love my Sansa 8GB to carry much of my CD collection and many radio stations from Rhapsody. To go backward or stay the same with CDs (15 songs), is simply out of the question.

I've begun watching movies that my family refuses to watch in my office legally downloaded from Netflix. Do I buy DVDs? Yeah, but I would be happier if I didn't have to. The movie studios understand the changes coming, and they are beginning to work with the distribution outlets to capitalize on the change away from hard media. My latest DVD purchase actually provided the electronic version with it!

Music studios are slowly disappearing as more artists don't see the value in letting the studios get all the money for selling their music. Soon, many authors are going to refuse to watch their hard work go to filling the coffers of fat cats in NY. After all, the author does all the work except printing and distribution, but hey, an author can now buy those things themselves! Heck, they can even buy editorial services.

The joke is these publishers believe they control the market. Clearly, the consumer controls the market. I bought Dan Brown's The Lost Symbol from Amazon for my Kindle a day before its Hardcover release. Doubleday has it right and will come out the winner, because the consumer will demand it, and they will deliver it.

The time is ripe for eBook subscription services just like Rhapsody and iTunes for music. Some are already starting, but I think someone big will have to drive it into reality. Can you say Apple? Maybe, unless Amazon gives it a whirl. I'd pay $10-$30 a month for all I can read electronically. Heck, I pay more than that for Television.

No offense to those who love them, but to cut down a perfectly good tree to print a book that is originally created on a computer is absurd in this day and age. Power to the people and power to the planet

[charleski]

Originally Posted by kennyc

No, no. Separate them The cost of the Ebook and the cost of the pbook. Not lumped together.

The principal cost is simply the cost of generating and promoting the work itself - paying the author's advance, editing the text as necessary, commissioning cover art, etc. Actual manufacturing costs represent only around 15% of the price of a physical book, which is why it's reasonable to expect ebooks to retail at a discount of 20-30%.

Originally Posted by Daithi

The publishers are making a killing on ebooks. The margin on ebooks is far higher than it is on hardcovers. An ebook doesn't have printing, warehousing, inventory, shipping, and returns costs. So the publisher gets paid $11.70 regardless of the type of book sold, but the cost of producing an ebook is much lower than a hardcover.

See above, and frankly this myth has been debunked several times on this forum and elsewhere. eBooks do represent a saving on costs and overheads, but not nearly to the degree that some people seem to imagine, and much of the saving comes at the distribution and retail end, which is covered by the 55% the publisher never sees.

[lilac_jive]

I'm sure it's already been said, but since I don't feel like reading this whole thread...

This really really really irritates me. I never buy books in hardcover, unless they are in the sale bin or at a used book sale. One of the things I love about my Sony is I can get hardcovers for a much cheaper price, and I don't have to wait til it comes out in paperback. They are actually making more money off me in this scenario, and I believe that is the same for a lot of people. Sure, it's going to take away from some hardcover sales, but are they even trying to compare? I bet the ebooks more that make up the difference, but I'm sure they all have their heads in their butts thinking those were ALL LOST HARDCOVERS SALES OH NOES!!!!

These publishers need to do some market research. If they polled buyers of ebook "hardcovers" I bet a ton would say they would have waited for the book to go in paperback or just borrow it from the library or a friend.