Kaufman links e-book trend to bookburning, Nazis

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by meraxes

Well it's not my fault that your jokes are lame. Sounded exactly like something Mr Kaufman himself might have said. So why don't you practice your stand-up routine on your grandma first.

Well, if you'd bothered to read the comment in context, no Grandma would be needed. It was quite obvious that it was a joke, as was my reply to the statement made.

Politeness costs nothing, well, it's heavily discounted at any rate.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by meraxes

Well it's not my fault that your jokes are lame. Sounded exactly like something Mr Kaufman himself might have said. So why don't you practice your stand-up routine on your grandma first.

ohhhh piercingly funny!!!

others got it. lighten up

[meraxes]

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

Nooooooooo! I mean, yes, but augh, not another Nazi/Hitler/Holocaust reference.

Luqman

I'm sure Mr Kaufman will have noticed.

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

Those who fought this conflict were motivated by class interests: the workers fearing replacement and a worsening of work conditions (i.e. an increased tempo of production) and the owners of early industrial capital seeking to more thoroughly exploit the resources over which they had control: workers, raw materials, and machines.

Luqman

That's perfectly fair - if you define "class war" as a conflict between classes, then I'm happy to accept that and agree with you.

Personally, I tend to think of a class war as one strictly motivated by class issues - e.g. privilege, inequality etc., whereas my understanding of the Luddite movement was that their objections were specifically against the introduction of new technology, which they feared would affect their livelihoods. Certainly, the vandalism which they undertook was principally directed at that technology.

However, I'm happy to accept your meaning for the sake of the discussion, and as such I accept your point.

In my original comment, I wasn't referring to the historical luddites, simply using the word in it's everyday usage of "one who dislikes/mistrusts new technologies".

/JB

[meraxes]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Well, if you'd bothered to read the comment in context,

No I didn't bother, why would I? Do you seriously think the comment was worth it? Sifting through 12 pages I mean, just to find out if the author was echoing Kaufman or trying to be sarcastic?

Originally Posted by Moejoe

no Grandma would be needed. It was quite obvious that it was a joke, as was my reply to the statement made.

Politeness costs nothing, well, it's heavily discounted at any rate.

Your lecturing about politeness was doubtless prompted by the suave references to the 5th point of contact? Or are you simply trying to pay kindlekitten back in kind for her flattering attention to your silly robotic stephanie myer routine?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by meraxes

No I didn't bother, why would I? Do you seriously think the comment was worth it? Sifting through 12 pages I mean, just to find out if the author was echoing Kaufman or trying to be sarcastic?



Your lecturing about politeness was doubtless prompted by the suave references to the 5th point of contact? Or are you simply trying to pay kindlekitten back in kind for her flattering attention to your silly robotic stephanie myer routine?

LOL. Are you Mr. Kaufman under an assumed name? And if the original comment wasn't worth your 'bother' why did you reply to it? And as to why you would bother, well, that's called comprehenshion. Have a nice day. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[kindlekitten]

oh good grief! how on earth can you respond to anything with any clarity at all if you can't at least pay a little bit of attention to what is going on?

just crawl back in your hole and keep on with your myopic view of the world

[pshrynk]

Okay, everyone back to your corners and breathe! Please do not devolve into insults and personal attacks.

And, no, I don't care who started it.

pshrynk (moderator)

[Sonist]

Wow! Poor Mr. Kaufman!

It's an essay, for Pasta's sake.... I may disagree with it, but it's heartfelt. Let the guy lament an era passing by, it's O.K., really. As he says, it's only "only a private complaint."

And, it's preposterous to claim offense. Kaufman feels strongly about the physical book, and it is natural to relate to something which has strongly impacted his early life. Methinks his imagery works well for what he intends to convey.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

He's not heard of Godwin. In fact, he might be the last person on the planet who hasn't heard of Godwin.

To me, when someone grasps on to a subject so much, to where it is part of everything they do, they end up being short sighted. That is besides the point that he does appear to be in violation of Godwin's Law (which was meant to show that such behavior tends to show that someone is grasping at straws, and trying to evoke emotion rather than using logic and reason).

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

You are strong like bull.

Naw. I was born under the sign of the twins - that means there are two of me stuck inside the meat shell! Twice the personalities, half the workload!

Derek

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Wait.

Could we be going about this the wrong way?

Attacking his beliefs will only embed them.

A group of us, with our readers, showing him WHY they are so important.........now thats something else.

Serious conversations and one on one demo's would have to change his mind!

Having him see is isn't "one or the other" that most of us love both our paper books and e-books.....that there is no difference in the reading experience once you get into a great story......thats what could have an effect.

As for the rising illiteracy rate.....its starts at birth, people. You gotta read to your kids every frickin' day. They have to see you with a book, paper or ebook in your face.

oops......off my soapbox now.

Depends on how you define "literacy".

But I think the paragraph so often quoted is at the heart of his screed. He doesn't want to have to 'compete' for the readers' attentions. Just such a scenario was put forth by the authors' guild in "Atlas Shrugged". I think what he envisions is a society where it isn't easy to assuage the hunger for more reading material, rather the selection is limited to "great works" and one is only allowed to buy from that group of 'approved' (of course, approval comes from said guilds) works, etc., ad-nauseum. Yep. A very socialist view.

And yes, I notice that he's managed to redefine non-socialist activities (the current marketplace where those who refuse to adapt to their customers' desires fade from the market) as 'socialist'. How modern a technique!

Derek

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Wow! Poor Mr. Kaufman!

It's an essay, for Pasta's sake.... I may disagree with it, but it's heartfelt. Let the guy lament an era passing by, it's O.K., really. As he says, it's only "only a private complaint."

And, it's preposterous to claim offense. Kaufman feels strongly about the physical book, and it is natural to relate to something which has strongly impacted his early life. Methinks his imagery works well for what he intends to convey.

yeah, but he went out of his way to bring it HERE! he wasn't satisfied with leaving it where it was initially published

[meraxes]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

And if the original comment wasn't worth your 'bother' why did you reply to it?

I replied to it because, (as your own condescending sneering at Mrs Myer's books has demonstrated), some people always seize the opportunity to boost their egos by denigrating others' reading preferences. That sentiment is very clear in Mr Kaufman's rant - he seems to believe that he knows what others should read, and how they should read it. Kindlekitten's contribution to this discussion, on the face of it, seemed to be fully in line with this view.

The fact that her contribution was in fact an attempted sarcasm might (or might not) have become clear to me after studying all her previous postings in this thread. I don't think her postings deserve such careful study. She seems to believe otherwise, but we'll just have to disagree on that. And the fact that I took her attempted witticism at face value was enough for her to rush head-first into unimaginative innuendo about sticks lodged in the fifth point of contact. How that flagrant breach of etiquette passed your normally vigilant politeness radar is completely beyond me. But be that as it may, how do you expect me to react when I respond in good faith to what I take for a serious posting - only to be told straight away that I'm a bit of an idiot for not understanding the poster's subtle sense of humour?

[meraxes]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

He doesn't want to have to 'compete' for the readers' attentions... I think what he envisions is a society where it isn't easy to assuage the hunger for more reading material, rather the selection is limited to "great works" and one is only allowed to buy from that group of 'approved' (of course, approval comes from said guilds) works..

Well said. That's just typical protectionist whining of the entrenched supplier who doesn't want any competition on "his" turf. And actually has the gall to tell his customers they are too dumb to decide for themselves, so the choice of what to buy and who to buy it from should belong to him, the supplier, and his chums in the traditional publishing industry.