Classic Shipping Tomorrow?

[Eugene]

Glad to see I'm not the only one delayed here. I ordered before just about everyone I know...1:11 on Oct. 20.

[Kolenka]

Hmm, makes sense. I didn't know the paperwork for the lawsuit would be this far along. I'd half-expect it to take until the new year, guess I was wrong there.

Too bad though. But at least this sort of delay shouldn't impact those further down the list (as it sounds like they are still building stock).

[JJoyce]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

Hmm, makes sense. I didn't know the paperwork for the lawsuit would be this far along. I'd half-expect it to take until the new year, guess I was wrong there.

Too bad though. But at least this sort of delay shouldn't impact those further down the list (as it sounds like they are still building stock).

It's not so much the lawsuit as Spring Design's request for a preliminary injunction (which was heard today).

They don't even have a case management conference for the lawsuit until mid-March.

And I'm hoping this doesn't impact other pre-orders, but I know some people on Nookboards are saying they've been moved back to the Dec. 14th shipment instead of the Dec. 9th.

Sounds like B&N may be freeing more stock to get more units in to stores because of the delay at the cost of bumping back some pre-orders to later waves.

[Kolenka]

Originally Posted by JJoyce

It's not so much the lawsuit as Spring Design's request for a preliminary injunction (which was heard today).

They don't even have a case management conference for the lawsuit until mid-March.

I understand, I didn't even think the preliminary injunction would be able to get court time this quick, but that is just me being ignorant of the process, more than anything else.

[kindlekitten]

wow! sounds like not only did B&N jump the gun on their announcement and plan to release, they forgot to measure the powder!!!

[Kolenka]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

wow! sounds like not only did B&N jump the gun on their announcement and plan to release, they forgot to measure the powder!!!

The more I've read about the Alex lawsuit, the more I hear that Spring Design probably doesn't have as good a leg to stand on as the public currently believes... but who knows the devilish details in the matter, or how the Judge will finally rule when the dust settles.

Amazon had their own shipping fun when they launched (and I was one of a group stricken with weird battery issues when I finally got mine)... so I'd be careful about calling the kettle black at this point.

[JJoyce]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

The more I've read about the Alex lawsuit, the more I hear that Spring Design probably doesn't have as good a leg to stand on as the public currently believes... but who knows the devilish details in the matter, or how the Judge will finally rule when the dust settles.

I've come to the same tentative conclusion myself.

I've kept up with the filings off of PACER (federal court records system) and have to say it's made for some interesting reading. Particularly since B&N is alleging Spring Design is engaging in extortion with the suit as leverage.

I'd hoped to be reading the transcript of today's hearing by now, but...apparently the Northern California district court has this bizarre local rule that only permits the transcript to be obtained at the clerk's office until sometime in February when its finally released on PACER.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by qpid360

*sigh* at least it looks like Dec. 9 is the definite date.

Well, Nov 30 was a definite date wasn't it?

[gulo]

got my email too, delayed until 12/9

sucks, especially how they are trying to pass that on as good news - congrats you're getting free overnight shipping and we're throwing in $10 gift card, isn't that cool ?

no, it sucks

[qpid360]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Well, Nov 30 was a definite date wasn't it?

that's true. i'll be PO'ed if they blow the new date too.

[Kolenka]

Well, the lawsuit is still rather interesting from the standpoint that these two companies did interact under NDA. Now the details aren't specific about what was shown (although that will likely come to light during the discovery phase), but there are rumors that don't lend a lot of credit to Spring Design's case.

As an engineer, I'd be surprised if B&N wasn't developing the nook prior to their meeting. 6-7 months just isn't enough time to push a product from conception to launch. Normal product cycles are closer to 12-18 months, easily up to 24 months for new products, depending on the sort of rush the company is in and how much work is done for them ahead of time.

I read a hypothesis posted by someone on Engadget's comments, which makes a ton of sense: Spring Design was looking for a brand to carry Alex, and approached B&N. B&N, with the nook in development, probably was looking at it from the angle of getting the Alex to carry B&N content (like other models coming out that will support the B&N eBook store). They went their separate ways at that point. Rumors of the nook started landing with details, and Spring Design took it as abuse of the IP displayed under NDA and moved to do what they could in terms of legal action.

The linchpin in this includes a comment that the design of the Alex in April was likely not the same design as posted up the days before the nook announcement. If the design was indeed different, and/or B&N can prove their design predates the interaction, that would undermine a big chunk of Spring Design's argument.

But, yeah... the lawsuit is happening, and I'd say that the law firm representing them was smart to ask B&N to hold off shipping until the preliminary injunction hearing was held and the results known. Sucks, but it is what it is.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

The more I've read about the Alex lawsuit, the more I hear that Spring Design probably doesn't have as good a leg to stand on as the public currently believes... but who knows the devilish details in the matter, or how the Judge will finally rule when the dust settles.

Amazon had their own shipping fun when they launched (and I was one of a group stricken with weird battery issues when I finally got mine)... so I'd be careful about calling the kettle black at this point.

I'm not doing any pot/kettle... just observing from the sidelines. I am gifting a Kindle 2 which came REALLY close to being a nook. when I bought the K2 I would have been travelling this week expecting to have the gift in hand. as it is, I've had the K2 since Halloween and I'm not traveling for awhile yet. when I do take the trip to give the gift, it will be out of the country. that would have been a pisser if it hadn't been ready yet

[PaulGuy]

We ordered 2 in this household and only got 1 coupon. Adding insult to injury.

[JJoyce]

Kolenka:

Oddly enough, that might have been me (DFWLaw over there). And that was pretty much my gut feeling at the time based partly on how big a deal some of the principals at Spring Design were making over their impression that they had a deal in place.

And unfortunately, just appearing different isn't going to help in this case (though the Alex did look like a big Nintendo DS in March/April). If it were just a case of appearing similar, we'd be dealing with a trade dress suit which B&N might have a harder time with.

The issue here is Spring Design is alleging that the combination of features that makes up the Alex would have been impossible for B&N to select/implement without the information Spring Design provided.

Incidentally, my feeling about that theory has been reinforced by an allegation made in B&N's response to the complaint that Spring Design is using the suit to attempt to pressure B&N to agree to a content deal for Alex. B&N claims that Spring executives contacted them after the suit was filed, offering to resolve it if B&N agreed to the deal.

[Kolenka]

Originally Posted by JJoyce

The issue here is Spring Design is alleging that the combination of features that makes up the Alex would have been impossible for B&N to select/implement without the information Spring Design provided.

Incidentally, my feeling about that theory has been reinforced by an allegation made in B&N's response to the complaint that Spring Design is using the suit to attempt to pressure B&N to agree to a content deal for Alex. B&N claims that Spring executives contacted them after the suit was filed, offering to resolve it if B&N agreed to the deal.

Which is an odd claim for them to make. It isn't like the area of "How the heck do you interact with a slow eInk screen in a way that doesn't suck?" is something nobody has been thinking about. Because everyone has been trying to make eInk more palatable, the odds of two people coming to a same or similar idea is non-zero. Of course, the details are always hidden in the specific implementation anyways, which is what the courts care about, so I could just be off base here.

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I'm not doing any pot/kettle... just observing from the sidelines.

The Kindle launch was its own ugly little monster. Kit that had horrible battery life for no apparent reason (4 days with the wireless off), shipping delays and line jumping due to what shipping type you picked (I remember the mess that was with people trying to figure out what it all meant), and the sheer lack of information on any of it. I just wanted to try to steer the thread away from going down that rabbit hole, although I probably failed miserably at this point when I started making the comparisons myself.

The comment like the one you made earlier in the thread, and in other nook threads in the nook forum have been fairly negative, and yeah, the nook launch is about on par with the Kindle launch. Just a couple different problems at this point with the same results. While it probably isn't your intent, the attitude the comes off from your posts in the nook forum isn't exactly what I'd call constructive. At the very least, we only have armchair knowledge of the problems that led to this particular fiasco, and making a general insult (based on assumptions we don't have proof of, i.e. that B&N walked into this fully aware of the fallout that would follow) at the company doesn't really help anyone except those who want to vent. It certainly doesn't fix the problems B&N now faces or get anyone their devices faster.