Going Rogue

[BenG]

Ann Coulter is just mean. Palin just comes across as a spoiled beauty queen.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by Crowl

Here's hoping you never catch anything too expensive then.

On another note, wouldn't this topic be better suited to the Lounge since even in the beginning it was never really a reading recommendation.

Except that we hear all the time about people who have health insurance and still catch something expensive. Most declare bankruptcy. How did having health insurance help them, exactly?

And besides, the odds of catching something (so expensive that I cannot pay for it) is so small that it approaches zero. Just because some people panic over the nearly impossible does not mean I should do so as well.

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Except that we hear all the time about people who have health insurance and still catch something expensive. Most declare bankruptcy. How did having health insurance help them, exactly?

So you have the uninsured and the insured getting ****ed over by the current system, sounds like it needs some reforming to me.

[pshrynk]

Please refrain from the use of profanity.

[pshrynk]

I've also moved this discussion to the lounge, since it has not been much about Gov Pallin's book as it has been about a discussion of politicians.

Might I just add, a big thank you to everyone for carrying on the discussion to date without getting into attacks? This has been a refreshing discussion.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

I've also moved this discussion to the lounge, since it has not been much about Gov Pallin's book as it has been about a discussion of politicians.

Might I just add, a big thank you to everyone for carrying on the discussion to date without getting into attacks? This has been a refreshing discussion.

Ah Ha! I feel freed to actually discuss politics now, even though that certainly was not my intent when starting this thread.

[pshrynk]

Discussing politics = okay.

Discussing bathing habits of others discussing politics = not so much.

[kennyc]

My personal leanings politically are Libertarian. Many things I don't like about both of the major parties. I think there is tremendous waste in government spending both internally and externally. I think lobbying by business, corporations, etc. has been the destroyer of our system of government. The health care system is completely out of control because of business, corporate law, and lack of regulation. (same is true of the financial industry which is what brought out the current economic problems we find ourselves in). Both of these industries must be brought under control through reform and changing regulations and laws. It is my belief (as well as a majority of the people in the U.S.A) that Obama and his administration are doing the things that need to be done to rescue our country from the brink of total collapse. And it is working. The economy has made the turn and we are on the way to recovery, but there is still a long way to go and much that still needs to change.

As far as Sarah, there is no way I can take anyone seriously that believes in Creationism or opposes a woman's right to choose, or opposed science and scientific research the way Bush did.

[Crowl]

While I don't like her beliefs or politcs, one thing I do feel kind of sorry about for Palin is the way she was thrown in at the deep-end when she was chosen as McCain's running mate, it was a desperate move on their part and they were clearly hoping to take advantage of any boost she might provide before the public noticed her limitations.

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by Crowl

While I don't like her beliefs or politcs, one thing I do feel kind of sorry about for Palin is the way she was thrown in at the deep-end when she was chosen as McCain's running mate, it was a desperate move on their part and they were clearly hoping to take advantage of any boost she might provide before the public noticed her limitations.

You know, that's true. If she had been left alone, she may have actually matured into a voice in the conservative wing of the Republican Party. As it is, she frequently comes across as an amateur. She is obviously ambitious, just not, in my opinion, ready for the stage she's playing on right now.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Crowl

While I don't like her beliefs or politcs, one thing I do feel kind of sorry about for Palin is the way she was thrown in at the deep-end when she was chosen as McCain's running mate, it was a desperate move on their part and they were clearly hoping to take advantage of any boost she might provide before the public noticed her limitations.

I agree with that!

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

And besides, the odds of catching something (so expensive that I cannot pay for it) is so small that it approaches zero. Just because some people panic over the nearly impossible does not mean I should do so as well.

Do you have auto insurance? Fire insurance on your house? Flood insurance? Life insurance?

That's the whole point of insurance... to protect you from the unexpected even if the chances are small that you will need it. When you are buying insurance you are betting you will need it and the insurance company is betting that you won't.

While you may want to take that risk others don't. Will you really be able to pay for all your medical bills if something does happen? Do you know how much a single nights stay in a hospital is? I don't care how young or healthy you are. You could fall off a ladder and need to stay a night in the hospital to be monitored.

I'm not sure if you are married, but if you were and you and your wife wanted to have a baby... you know what that will cost you without insurance?

BOb

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

....
I'm not sure if you are married, but if you were and you and your wife wanted to have a baby... you know what that will cost you without insurance?

BOb

But can't ya just do that at home?

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by kennyc

But can't ya just do that at home?

Well, you can do the conceive part at home... but very risky to do the delivery part at home. Even a home birth with a midwife can cost $3000 or more.

BOb

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

So long as you attack me by impugning my motives there is no chance that we will come to an understanding. I have said this before, and I will say it again.

I'm sorry you took my message personally. By "you" I meant the broad group of people who prefer to be uninsured. I was not attacking you personally nor impugning your motives.

I am glad that you are willing to pay for your medical care and I hope that you will always earn enough money to pay for it. And I think people who want to be excluded should be given the option of being excluded -- but be excluded entirely. Either pay in advance the estimated full cost of treatment or get no treatment no matter how uncharitable and cold-hearted that may seem. (Although I see it no more uncharitable or cold-hearted than their wanting to deny universal health care to the rest of us.)

The reality for most people who choose the route you chose is that they cannot afford to pay for medical care beyond perhaps a doctor's office visit. They simply do not earn enough to pay the costs.

I also know that I need -- I do not want, but need -- to take certain medications daily and that my copays for the medications run $270 per month and if I had to pay out of pocket the entire cost, it would run me $1728 per month. My illnesses are not lifestyle illnesses that can be cured by such expediencies as weight loss or cutting out fatty foods, as much as I wish the answers were so simple.

Few people can afford such payments over the long-term no matter how frugal they have been. And if they aren't covered by insurance before they need the medications, insurance won't cover it.

Americans should not be required to choose between decent health, decent housing, decent food, and decent education. America is a great nation because of the contributions made by all of its people and all of its people deserve decent health, decent housing, decent food, and decent education.

The reality in America is that fewer people would choose to go without health insurance if they knew there was no backup available that would be paid for by their fellow taxpayers. Libertarianism, like most other isms, is great until one needs a different ism and can't get it.

The other anomaly I note in all these arguments is that many of those opposed to national health care either have health insurance through their current employer or union, are already receiving a form of national health care such as through the VA or Medicare, are economically in the top tier of wage earners, or are young and in the prime of life and have not yet experienced the devastation -- emotional and economic -- that lack of health insurance can cause when struck (or a family member is struck) by a sudden debilitating disease. This is one of those causes that requires a more christian perspective of putting oneself in the shoes of the needy rather than in one's own shoes.