Kindle for PC is there - Page 13

scveteran · 11-13-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

No, they are not a "service". They are simply ebooks, which attract normal rate VAT. Printed books are specifically zero-rated.

(And that's "socalist")

The service is sending you the book electronically. That is why you get the VAT.

DawnFalcon · 11-13-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scveteran

Here, you are being charged a tax on the distribution, not the actual book.

And this makes a difference because? The problem is not the tax, it's the per-book charge in the first place. "Whispernet" is an excuse to charge it despite there being no wireless in Amazon's side of the equasion at all.

Thanks for pushing me firmly into the "scam" catagory.

pilotbob · 11-13-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

And this makes a difference because? The problem is not the tax, it's the per-book charge in the first place. "Whispernet" is an excuse to charge it despite there being no wireless in Amazon's side of the equasion at all.

Thanks for pushing me firmly into the "scam" catagory.

I wish people would stop calling this a "scam". Scam is a dishonest scheme or fraud. Amazon charging you for wireless surcharge is not fraudulent. If you don't like it, don't but it.

So, how does wireless work if there is "no wireless". Do leprechaun's bring it in pixie dust?

BOb

DawnFalcon · 11-13-2009, 09:53 PM

Well yes, please do explain how wireless is involved between someone's ADSL or cable modem and Amazon's server.

Waiiiting.

pilotbob · 11-13-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Well yes, please do explain how wireless is involved between someone's ADSL or cable modem and Amazon's server.

Waiiiting.

First... let's take a step back and remember that no matter how passionate we are about an issue, we can discuss it civilly. (moderator hat off now)

If you buy a book from Amazon, they charge you a wireless fee. That allows you to d/l that book via Whispernet... not once, but whenever you want to. Because you choose not to do that, doesn't make the fee a scam.

Now, do I think it would be good if Amazon offered a "download via web" only price for the book.. sure... that would be a nice option. But, the fact that they don't doesn't make it a "scam". I'm also sure saying that Amazon is scamming you doesn't motivate them to offer an alternative price and delivery method.

No, if you paid the fee and couldn't download the book via whispernet. Or you tried to use the wireless and it wouldn't send you the book. Or the fee was charged each time you d/l'ed via whispernet when you were told it was a one time fee... that would be fraud/scam. But, none of these things is the case.

As a consumer you have a choice. The fees are clearly spelled out on the web site and the price of the ebook is clearly marked before you purchase it. So, you make your choice and buy it or not.

But, let's be realistic here, you are not being scammed.

BOb

DawnFalcon · 11-13-2009, 11:15 PM

It's sarcasm. There are not those steps, plain and simple. There is no wireless involved in Kindle for PC. Period, end of story. There is no reason to charge for wireless delivery, because there is no wireless. If someone later added a Kindle and wanted wireless delivery? Well, that's another story, sure, and charges then might be appropriate.

And going by the definitions used by anti-malware programs, I'm afraid you're quite simply wrong not to lable the program malware. Oh it won't, Amazon have enough clout to make the issue go away, but it clearly falls foul of the definitions - that sort of "contingency charge" is a clear, and fairly common, scam.

Billjr13 · 11-14-2009, 03:42 AM

Is there a wire running directly to your house from Amazon,s computer servers? It must be comming to your computer somehow? Wireless? Maybe?
If you don't like their service don't use it.

zacheryjensen · 11-14-2009, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billjr13

Is there a wire running directly to your house from Amazon,s computer servers? It must be comming to your computer somehow? Wireless? Maybe?
If you don't like their service don't use it.

Let's stop feeding the trolls, and get back to our regularly scheduled sane programming shall we?

Sweetpea · 11-14-2009, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

It's sarcasm. There are not those steps, plain and simple. There is no wireless involved in Kindle for PC. Period, end of story. There is no reason to charge for wireless delivery, because there is no wireless. If someone later added a Kindle and wanted wireless delivery? Well, that's another story, sure, and charges then might be appropriate.

And going by the definitions used by anti-malware programs, I'm afraid you're quite simply wrong not to lable the program malware. Oh it won't, Amazon have enough clout to make the issue go away, but it clearly falls foul of the definitions - that sort of "contingency charge" is a clear, and fairly common, scam.

So, you buy that book now and next week you buy the Kindle. And download the book by wireless. And you haven't paid the "wireless" fee.

It would require of Amazon to implement a way to differentiate between books that can only be downloaded via your internet connection and books that can also be downloaded by way of the Kindle/iphone/itouch wireless.

Billjr13 · 11-14-2009, 04:37 AM

Sorry I wasnt trying to be a troll

DawnFalcon · 11-14-2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

So, you buy that book now and next week you buy the Kindle. And download the book by wireless. And you haven't paid the "wireless" fee.

It would require of Amazon to implement a way to differentiate between books that can only be downloaded via your internet connection and books that can also be downloaded by way of the Kindle/iphone/itouch wireless.

Yep. They track a lot of things, this is something else they could do very easily. Charging contingency fees for something you cannot use is a typical and common online scam, as I said. This is in no way "insane", it's my typically pragmatic-above-all view of looking at offerings.

I'm sad but not surprised to see that some people refuse to condem Amazon for this, and it never seems to make the articles - it's a big deal, especially when it ties you into a closed and propriatory ecosystem.

HansTWN · 11-14-2009, 08:15 AM

Nobody is saying it is a good thing, perhaps part of the contract with AT&T or a concession to foreign publishers who do not want to see these books given away, who knows. Could also be that Amazon's software is not setup to prevent downloading via the modem for free books and force you to download these via your computer. Fact is, for the moment there are no free books for anybody except Americans, unless you work around the regional restrictions. But our advice is -- if you don't like what Amazon does, don't use them.

DawnFalcon · 11-14-2009, 08:27 AM

Well of course not, they've given up my business until they're prepared to denounce the scam (and, knowing me, it'll be several years after that before I'm willing to deal with them again). And of course they're also banned on any network I control and I'll tell people not to deal with them. Nothing unusual...I also do the same for companies like Zynga and Tattoo Media.

Prospect · 11-14-2009, 10:14 AM

Tax or no-tax, what is impressive is that Amazon seems to have gotten the DRM right. The software has been out for a week and the DRM is still not cracked.

EowynCarter · 11-14-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prospect

Tax or no-tax, what is impressive is that Amazon seems to have gotten the DRM right. The software has been out for a week and the DRM is still not cracked.

And in the meantime, there lossing sales because some won't buy until they can de-drm

No point in books i can only read on PC.

11-13-2009, 11:15 PM	#186
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	It's sarcasm. There are not those steps, plain and simple. There is no wireless involved in Kindle for PC. Period, end of story. There is no reason to charge for wireless delivery, because there is no wireless. If someone later added a Kindle and wanted wireless delivery? Well, that's another story, sure, and charges then might be appropriate. And going by the definitions used by anti-malware programs, I'm afraid you're quite simply wrong not to lable the program malware. Oh it won't, Amazon have enough clout to make the issue go away, but it clearly falls foul of the definitions - that sort of "contingency charge" is a clear, and fairly common, scam. Last edited by DawnFalcon; 11-13-2009 at 11:24 PM.

11-14-2009, 08:15 AM	#192
HansTWN Wizard Posts: 4,538 Karma: 264065402 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD	Nobody is saying it is a good thing, perhaps part of the contract with AT&T or a concession to foreign publishers who do not want to see these books given away, who knows. Could also be that Amazon's software is not setup to prevent downloading via the modem for free books and force you to download these via your computer. Fact is, for the moment there are no free books for anybody except Americans, unless you work around the regional restrictions. But our advice is -- if you don't like what Amazon does, don't use them. Last edited by HansTWN; 11-14-2009 at 08:37 AM.

11-14-2009, 10:14 AM	#194
Prospect Other Posts: 143 Karma: 644 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norway Device: Cybook, Kindle	Congratulations Amazon Tax or no-tax, what is impressive is that Amazon seems to have gotten the DRM right. The software has been out for a week and the DRM is still not cracked.

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11-13-2009, 09:53 PM	#184
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Well yes, please do explain how wireless is involved between someone's ADSL or cable modem and Amazon's server. Waiiiting.

11-14-2009, 03:42 AM	#187
Billjr13 Addict Posts: 357 Karma: 550002 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Colorado Device: Sony PRS 700 & 650	Is there a wire running directly to your house from Amazon,s computer servers? It must be comming to your computer somehow? Wireless? Maybe? If you don't like their service don't use it.

11-14-2009, 04:37 AM	#190
Billjr13 Addict Posts: 357 Karma: 550002 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Colorado Device: Sony PRS 700 & 650	Sorry I wasnt trying to be a troll

11-14-2009, 08:27 AM	#193
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Well of course not, they've given up my business until they're prepared to denounce the scam (and, knowing me, it'll be several years after that before I'm willing to deal with them again). And of course they're also banned on any network I control and I'll tell people not to deal with them. Nothing unusual...I also do the same for companies like Zynga and Tattoo Media.